scrambler Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 This man knows what it's all about. He's the former commander of Army Special Forces, Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin. Boykin has led or been part of almost every recent U.S. military operation, from the ill-fated attempt to rescue hostages in Iran to Grenada, Panama, Colombia, Somalia. Boykin was recently promoted to deputy undersecretary of defense. In June 2003, Boykin spoke to a church group over a slide show: “Well, is he [bin Laden] the enemy? Next slide. Or is this man [saddam] the enemy? The enemy is none of these people I have showed you here. The enemy is a spiritual enemy. He’s called the principality of darkness. The enemy is a guy called Satan.” Give me a freakin' break. Boykin also routinely tells audiences that god, not the voters, chose Bush: “Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this.” Apparently, Boykin doesn't believe it was the US Supreme Court that decided the outcome of the election, rather it was God's will, a miracle if you will. Top terrorist hunter's divisive views--link to MSNBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRoark Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 In America, we are all entitled to our own views and beliefs. His differ from yours. So what? Where's your liberal-minded tolerance and acceptance of diversity now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 what's your point, scrambled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 What a guy! Check out this guy if you want to see scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scrambler said: This man knows what it's all about. He's the former commander of Army Special Forces, Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin. Boykin has led or been part of almost every recent U.S. military operation, from the ill-fated attempt to rescue hostages in Iran to Grenada, Panama, Colombia, Somalia. Boykin was recently promoted to deputy undersecretary of defense. In June 2003, Boykin spoke to a church group over a slide show: “Well, is he [bin Laden] the enemy? Next slide. Or is this man [saddam] the enemy? The enemy is none of these people I have showed you here. The enemy is a spiritual enemy. He’s called the principality of darkness. The enemy is a guy called Satan.” You know what i sfunny is some protestant frenchies where told by their minister during ww11 that there was an evil in the world and that they should use "weapons of the spirit" to fight it. So they took in jewish children to live with them. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 His objective should be hard military targets. Specific targets like Al Qaida cells and such. Do you think this man thinks that God talks to him? Anything wrong with that? Well that depends on what God tells you to do. There's something medieval about his thinking. Isn't this type of thinking part of the reason that the Founding Fathers didn't endorse a particular religion. The history of religious wars that ravaged Europe should have been lesson enough. But if that's not enough, just look at the Middle East, Northern Ireland, etc. Yeah, I know it's more complicated than that, there's a lot of factors involved but religious difference seems to be the root cause . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRoark Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scrambler said: His objective should be hard military targets. Specific targets like Al Qaida cells and such. Do you think this man thinks that God talks to him? Anything wrong with that? Well that depends on what God tells you to do. There's something medieval about his thinking. Isn't this type of thinking part of the reason that the Founding Fathers didn't endorse a particular religion. I don't think he's advocating a second front against Hell, or anything, dude. In his view, and belief system, he is pointing out that there is an evil force (Satan) behind men like Saddam and OBL. He believes in God, you don't. Why is HIS view medieval and yours not? Why are either? The Founding Fathers wrote a portion of the First Amendment in order to protect our individual rights to practice religion as we each see fit. They had come from a country where there was a governmentally-endorsed religion which persecuted those who did not follow it. What does this have to do with this man's personal beliefs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 HRoark said: In America, we are all entitled to our own views and beliefs. His differ from yours. So what? Where's your liberal-minded tolerance and acceptance of diversity now? True, but in wearing a military uniform he is speaking in part for the military and the government. He is basically saying that the US government equates islam with satan. Moveover US policy is directed from religious doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRoark Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 hakioawa said: HRoark said: In America, we are all entitled to our own views and beliefs. His differ from yours. So what? Where's your liberal-minded tolerance and acceptance of diversity now? True, but in wearing a military uniform he is speaking in part for the military and the government. He is basically saying that the US government equates islam with satan. Moveover US policy is directed from religious doctrine. Was he in uniform on an official junket when he gave this talk? We don't know. Maybe homeboy who posted this has the answer. Until then, your point is a little shaky; however, I do agree that if he IS in the process of projecting official US policy, his personal beliefs should not come out. All policy by all leaders are directed by their personal beliefs (or lack thereof); it's an inescapable part of being human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 did he say islam was bad? i didn't read that. saddam is not thought of in the islamic community as a muslim. even bin laden refuses to say this and continually states the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scott_harpell said: did he say islam was bad? i didn't read that. saddam is not thought of in the islamic community as a muslim. even bin laden refuses to say this and continually states the contrary. from cnn: .snip. Boykin said Islamic extremists hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christians. ... And the enemy is a guy named Satan." . . . Discussing a U.S. Army battle against a Muslim warlord in Somalia in 1993, Boykin told one audience, "I knew my god was bigger than his. I knew that my god was a real god and his was an idol." Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 (edited) HRoark Hahahahah. The Devil made me post this. Must be the archetype of Satan behind all this talk to drive a wedge into a unified front. Gotta be with an avatar such as scrambler. Seriously, though. At what point does someone become delusional? Just seems that religious thoughts can hijack a man's rationality. This is not meant as an indictment of Christianity or any particular religion. I believe as a member of the administration his hierarchy of obligations should be secular. Of course, in the real world this hardly ever happens. A religious meme can be particularily strong. The General's mindset is medieval in that he sees the world in black and white, believes in an active principle in effect in the world that opposes Christianity to the detriment of all souls, something Gothic about his worldview that I can't quite express. The War on Terrorism is really like a Crusade between Judeo-Christianity and fundamentalist Islam. I suppose I used the word, Gothic, because it's like all of us are like nameless individuals that strive and die as part of a larger goal for (the lack of a better phrase) the glory of God. Like we're paying taxes or laboring on a 'pyramid project' for some immortal moment in Time, a historical moment that'll go down in the not so distant future in the textbooks as a struggle between monumental opposites. I don't know. Maybe all this time not climbing is a bad thing. I need to go climb something. Edited October 16, 2003 by scrambler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scott_harpell said: Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. Yes, but your suicide is my martyrdom. There are any number of muslin clerics who will tell you it is your duty as a good moslem to fight the infidels. You cannot define away "radical islam". To some this is islam. Defame it and you defame devout pious Koram following muslims. Perhaps not in your opioion, but in others. A US general may make the distinction for himself, but in wearing the uniform he is making the statment for the US this is a bad idea for may reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 What a fucking whacko that guy is. Military/Political actions should not incorporate ideas like "evil" or "satan." Us and them is just fine, but trotting out your own set of irrational beliefs is laughable. The old "god says we're good and you suck" argument is one of the worst aspects of religion since humanoids could make syllables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 hakioawa said: scott_harpell said: Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. Yes, but your suicide is my martyrdom. There are any number of muslin clerics who will tell you it is your duty as a good moslem to fight the infidels. You cannot define away "radical islam". To some this is islam. Defame it and you defame devout pious Koram following muslims. Perhaps not in your opioion, but in others. A US general may make the distinction for himself, but in wearing the uniform he is making the statment for the US this is a bad idea for may reasons. from what i have read, the idea of martyrdom does not inclued suicide bombings, at least in the muslim tradition. this is an extremely new phenomenon that i believe has come about after pressure from 'islamic' rulers. If you die fighting a battle against evil, that is martyr. if you kill yourself, that is suicide. and it is impossible to say that these suicide bobmers are following the koran as they are knowingly breaking on of the fundamental principles. it is similar to GWB saying he is a christian, but not adhering to the pascifist tradition set forth by Christ. This new radical islam has more to do with politics than religion. There are devout muslims, but they are being killed off by people like osama bin laden as they are speaking out against war and suicide bombings. so it is not as simple as you might want to try and make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scott_harpell said: Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. one of the commandments in the Bible is "Thou shalt not kill" but some US fundamentalist Christians kill abortion providers In Ireland Protestants and Catholics kill each other how is this any different? These guys all have some religious leaders on their side telling them what they do is right and proper..... Please show me one religious authority figure that all persons of any one religious tradition agree to respect? Pope? Nope. Rabbis? Nope. Pat Robertson? Nope. Dalai Lama? Nope. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Ok the link above was bad check this out! better link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Dru said: scott_harpell said: Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. one of the commandments in the Bible is "Thou shalt not kill" but some US fundamentalist Christians kill abortion providers In Ireland Protestants and Catholics kill each other how is this any different? These guys all have some religious leaders on their side telling them what they do is right and proper..... Please show me one religious authority figure that all persons of any one religious tradition agree to respect? Pope? Nope. Rabbis? Nope. Pat Robertson? Nope. Dalai Lama? Nope. Who? the only person widely recognized in all major religions is Christ. I am well aware of the transgressions of Christianity. That is why i posted about GWB being a poor example. The 'evil' is the political aspect that pervades spirituality in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 religion is not the problem. people's abuses of religion for power is the problem. it happens in every religion and is more of a flaw in humans than a flaw in the concept of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 scott_harpell said: Dru said: scott_harpell said: Sounds like he thinks the "muslims extreamists'" god is satan. the fact that you had to use a qualifyer in your statement proves my point. the radical islam is not islam. any cleric of any reputation at all would agree with this. it is against the koran to commit suicide, but radical islamist endore this as divine. hard to believe that this is the same religion. one of the commandments in the Bible is "Thou shalt not kill" but some US fundamentalist Christians kill abortion providers In Ireland Protestants and Catholics kill each other how is this any different? These guys all have some religious leaders on their side telling them what they do is right and proper..... Please show me one religious authority figure that all persons of any one religious tradition agree to respect? Pope? Nope. Rabbis? Nope. Pat Robertson? Nope. Dalai Lama? Nope. Who? the only person widely recognized in all major religions is Christ. ya, BS!!!! anyways I meant - person - not mythological or historical figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Religious arguments are classic!! My god can beat up your god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 my God will smoke out your God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 No waaay bra. Mine can turn flour into cocaine. He can score more goals than Wayne Gretsky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 my God can turn devils club into salvia. so there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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