J_Fisher Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Newbie AT question here: this will be my 1st year doing any real AT skiing. Do people regularly use ski crampons? Are they a necessity, or a sometimes used nice to have? I'm expecting to be doing a mix of ski mountaineering and yo yo stuff. I've got Tua Big Easy skis mounted with Fritschi Diamirs, if that makes a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Actually, I'm curious about this, too. Seems like when it's that hard you're better off using real crampons and an axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 J_Fisher said: Do people regularly use ski crampons? Are they a necessity, or a sometimes used nice to have I've not used mine - and I've only encountered a couple of situations when they would have been necessary - mostly on traversing slopes with a thin layer of slush covering harder snow. I've heard of them being very useful in the Alps, where you have well used, icy skintracks that teh crampons bite into well. Â On a sidenote - the ski crampons for the new Silvretta Pure sound cool - you can put them on without taking off the skis. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I too have never used mine. There have been a few times when they might have come in handy but I did not have them with me, and these have generally been icy conditions where it would be just as easy to take the skis off and put on a pair of aluminum crampons - that is if you are wearing a ski boot that you can loosen up and walk comfortably in. Occasionally you might find breakable crust situation where that would not be such a good option. Â And, yes, the problem largely arises when traverssing. Wide skins stick to an icy surface most of the time if you can keep your skis flat on the ground such as when climbing straight uphill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatskiclimbsail Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I'm from the east coast where we ski ice more often than snow, and even in packed hard skin trails the crampons I bought for my diamirs don't do a hell of a lot. I didn't really think the system through when I got them, crampons don't glide (duh!) so it is more like slogging your skis back and forth while wearing crampons. I usually decide that rather than do some kind of balancy shuffle just to start walking with regular crampons. Haven't used the diamir ones in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I've used ski crampons quite a bit and consider them another tool in the bag to be brought out at the right time. I rarely use or carry them in the winter, but in the spring and summer they shine. Here's a few situations where I'd use or not use them:  (gear: dynafit crampons used on AT and tele bindings)  - early morning hard pack, terrain is such that I'll be keeping my skis on most of the time (easy to reach down and put on or take off. way easier than switching between boot crampons and skis) - firm conditions where you're traversing moderate to steep slopes and it's difficult to lay on enough skin surface to keep from sliding - firm or icy glacier terrain with probable/potential hidden crevasse (rather be on skis to even out weight)  - if all of above are on continually steeper terrain, I generally boot crampon  As I said, another tool - just go out and experiment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Ski crampons are defanitly worth getting. Ski crampons help save the life of your bindings. slamming your skiis onto compact, late season, or steep snow to get skin grip prematurly wears away the fittings in your bindings causing them to weaken. Ski crampons eliminate this. all ski crampons i know of do not drag on the snow during forward motion either, contrary to what someone said. It's a lot faster to put on a ski crampon than put on regular ones and have to pack your skiis. They save energy to. When not using ski crampons on icy slopes it takes a lot of arm strength and lower body to tensing to prevent slipping. They're safer for steep icy traverses than with no ski crampons. I and people I ski with, very rarely carry regular crampons on ski trips anyway due to weight. Ski crampons are most usefull in steep forest approaches where you often find more compact snow, spring skiing, and on windblown ridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 too heavy, too bulky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 To heavy . They weigh 200 grams. Leave a quarter liter of water out of your bottle for christ sake, You'll save sweating that 250ml from not having to work as hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 iain said: too heavy, too bulky  weight: 10 oz. - well worth it for the energy saved bulk: store in skin bag w/ skins in center of crampon - no additional bulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 have used mine a few times on the muir icefield on a nice day in winter when it gets windblown, also used at wa pass a few times on early morning freeze. they dont weight that much, and better to carry them then carry your skis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 salbrecher said: Ski crampons are defanitly worth getting. Ski crampons help save the life of your bindings. slamming your skiis onto compact, late season, or steep snow to get skin grip prematurly wears away the fittings in your bindings causing them to weaken. Ski crampons eliminate this. all ski crampons i know of do not drag on the snow during forward motion either, contrary to what someone said. I agree it's quicker to put ski crampons on than real crampons and carry the skis. However both the Dynafit and Sk'Alp ski crampons (nice because their protable between bindings) permanently drag. As for slamming the skis - Is this on a travers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Slamin the skiis is on steep hills that you can barly go strait up or on switchbacks that are at a really steep angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 cj001f said: However both the Dynafit and Sk'Alp ski crampons (nice because their protable between bindings) permanently drag. Â not quite - Skalp are fixed, but Dynafits pivot at the attachment point so lift with each step (unless you've modified them to optionally stay down as I have on my tele set-up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 russ said: not quite - Skalp are fixed, but Dynafits pivot at the attachment point so lift with each step (unless you've modified them to optionally stay down as I have on my tele set-up). Yeah, it does flex abit - the ones I've followed didn't seem to retract all the way. I've never skied a pair though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I've found a few conditions in the spring where ski crampons would be the shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 if you can get them, get them, they are handy to have in the bag. early morning, spring tours, they are also nice to put on when you've got just twenty or thirty feet to surmount a ridge line or feature after a long downhill run, much quicker to put on and off than taking skis off and putting on skins. Â and the points messner made about the energy expended by body posturing on steep icy traverses vs having ski crampons on is very true. Â I like them for many steep traverses on firm snow. you certainely don't need them much in feburary around here. Â and the skalps mount shweet for tele if you ride a short 6-10 mm riser plate vs the big 20 + mm that comes with many bindings nowadays. Â Voile 3 pin cable, rivas, straight 3 pin (they still work just fine) all can accomodate a skalp cramp quite easily. I have the half moon base plates on a couple of decks, just in case. Â case in point. june trip up over glacier peak and out via the dakobeds i brought ski cramps and left the full poons in the car. Steve B brought his poons but not ski cramps. I used mine on an icy traverse on the upper sitkum and climbed a steeper line as well, steve carried his poons and never used them and skied a lower angle track up the hill. Â I like my ski crampons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Beck said: and the skalps mount shweet for tele if you ride a short 6-10 mm riser plate vs the big 20 + mm that comes with many bindings nowadays. Â Another tele/crampon option has come up lately... If you use the new K2 riser, it is designed to take a Dynafit crampon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpentalcorey Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 10 oz? Seems more like 3oz at least for the dynafit crampons. They weigh nothing, and when you need them, they rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 My dynafit crampons are 5oz - pretty light nonetheless. I don't use them that often, and generally only in early spring, but several times I've encountered conditions where they're pretty essential - a hard thin icy crust on top of slush, where you need both the flotation of skis and the bite of crampons. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savaiusini Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 the times I've carried them, I've found I can get away with out them...the times I've left them at home or in the car are the times that I've wished I had them. I too agree with salbrecher regarding additional stress to the bindings when bashing edges into steep, firm sideslopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 I really like using ski crampons.  I think they’re very useful for traversing or climbing frozen slopes where a fall could be very serious (ie. sliding into trees at speed), especially if you have skis with large amounts of side-cut. Given very icy conditions, the difference in traction is not unlike comparing a two wheel drive and a four wheel drive car. The increased efficiency at that point makes the weight penalty worthwhile.  Ironically I carry the crampons primarily on mountaineering trips where skis are used on the approach, but rarely on ski trips, where the intention is cranking turns. If conditions are that icy, the skiing probably isn’t good (so I’m climbing). The exception to that rule is spring ski tours. Pre-dawn conditions in May often favour ski crampons, but conditions improve quickly after the sun hits the slope.  A second (but rarer) exception is low altitude, steep forest. On the Coast I find that this zone can go through a hard rain/freeze cycle, while the terrain the terrain above gets dumped with powder. It’s actually feasible to develop enough speed after falling be killed instantly hammering into trees. That sort of makes 200g worth it.  GB  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 philfort said: My dynafit crampons are 5oz - pretty light nonetheless. I Â Yah, I had the wrong weight listed on my gear chart. 8 oz for the dynafit 85mm crampons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 I'd just like to say that ski crampons are environmentally unsound. The reason I skin is to tread as lightly as possible in the mountain environment. I want to caress the snow, leaving as little trace of my passing as possible. Cramponing is a destructive, brutal technique, that penetrates and and irritates the delicate sensibilities of glacial ice, and sun-hardened snow. I do not condone ski-crampons in the backcountry. Anyone who uses them is raping the alpine envirnment in a fashion akin to bolting at crags. If you can't travel in the mountains without inserting your metal tentacles, I say STAY AT HOME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 E-rock said: I'd just like to say that ski crampons are environmentally unsound. The reason I skin is to tread as lightly as possible in the mountain environment. I want to caress the snow, leaving as little trace of my passing as possible. Cramponing is a destructive, brutal technique, that penetrates and and irritates the delicate sensibilities of glacial ice, and sun-hardened snow. I do not condone ski-crampons in the backcountry. Anyone who uses them is raping the alpine envirnment in a fashion akin to bolting at crags. If you can't travel in the mountains without inserting your metal tentacles, I say STAY AT HOME. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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