carolyn Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Over the past month I have read a few volumes of Accidents in North American Mountaineering. In addition, hearing about the various accidents around this country this ice season. Ive put a lot of thought into different scenerios that could take place and how I might deal with them. Because I play things waaaaaaaaaaay on the safe side, I never really thought about how I would react if something happened to ME. I always think about how I would take care of the 'other' person. I had the unfortunate opportunity to find out this weekend as I was involved in a bad situation. The fortunate thing is I am actually here typing this post and other than some intense physical pain and a bit of emotional distress I am fine. I will explain the situation briefly.... I was climbing with someone with a great deal of experience, in addition to my regular climbing partner. The more experienced person took the lead. My partner and I climbed side by side. Ive done this a couple times before and am not very fond of it. About 75ft up the climb I needed to stop at a ledge and warm my fingers up because I couldnt hold my tools (btw...according to the locals later that night, the area had been hit by a blizzard. They even closed the road to a majority of the climbs the next day). My partner kept climbing. I was looking down at my hands, cursing loudly as they went thru the "ying yang" phase when I was suddenly hit with no warning by a block of ice on the back of my neck. It was estimated to be about 15 pounds and fell from about 20-25 ft above me. I remember the feeling and will NEVER forget the sound. I think I blacked out momentarily. I checked my fingers and toes immediately and was able to move them. Dizzy, developing a splitting headache and numbness in my right arm I was stunned.Communication was poor between the leader (who couldnt see or hear well due to the weather) and my parnter (who can never hears a f'in thing anyway). I stood on the ledge stunned, knowing I needed to get down immediately but couldnt get that accross to the leader. It was a long proccess getting me down to the ground, and eventually to the car (thank goodness for many of the short approaches around here). Xrays showed nothing broken in my neck- just bruises/ tissue damage. I must have also been hit near the shoulder as I have a mild seperation. Now, I have discussed the situation in great detail with all those involved and a few others to figure out what could have been done differently. However if any of you would like more details and discuss this as a learning experience for myself or others, I would be happy to do so either in this post or pm. What I am really after in this post is some feedback on how to deal with the fear after something like this happens. Although I could be wrong, I imagine being injured in a climbing accident would affect anyone's mental attitude the next time they go out to climb. I went back out today (we had driven 7hrs to climb this weekend, so I wasnt about to sit in the hotel room!). I also knew it was important for me to get back out as soon as possible. The approach included climbing a few short waterfalls to the larger one, which I was fine with - in fact other than the pain, I ejoyed it immensly. Once we got to the larger climb and the leader began, I found myself 'on edge' the rest of the day. I chose to climb (the dr didnt reccomend it, but said it shouldnt cause any further damage, as long as I could deal with the immediate pain). Is this 'on edge' and fear normal? Ive had momentary thoughts in the past 48 hrs of "maybe i should sell all my gear and quit while Im ahead". But I REALLY DONT want to do that. I think about where I would be had I looked up at that split second the ice hit...it would have nailed my forhead or other parts of my face. I wonder if it had been more serious and with the poor communication what would have come of the situation and my health. I am SOOOOOOOOO grateful that neither of the above happened and that I AM okay. I dont think a minute has passed since the accident that I dont thank my lucky stars! Anyone relate or have thoughts on how to deal with the mental game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honkeydong Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 It's been my experience that there's really no easy way to deal with fear after a close call. Although I haven't suffered serious injury, I have had some hair-raising near misses and situations that were approaching the pissyerself stage. But, we almost always reneg on those promises to the Almighty sworn in hushed tones beyond earshot of partners in such circumstances. The tired cliche: "time heals all wounds," rings true; especially with psychological ones. But maybe we just forget, and activate selective memory to conjure up the good times. It's a mental game only you can win, but it's hard when the opponent is yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Glad you are OK!!!!!!!!! Now you dissect the event over and over until you think you have it totally figured out. Go back up there, at least to the base, to see how your memory of what happened fits the physical environment. Get it all set in your mind. Something could have been changed. Figure it out and change it from now on. Wow. Close call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 bug, i can't believe you are trying to get laid on cc.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imorris Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 You made a good decision to get back out there. I felt very tentative after a similar accident and found it important to get a positive experience in the mountains as soon as possible to dull the negative emotions. Sometimes bad stuff happens. You accept that with climbing and perhaps, it is the appeal of climbing to many. I've made many climbs since the above accident. However the event is still in my mind and I believe I am a stronger, safer climber for it. I'm glad to see that you are okay and have done the analysis to get something positive out of your incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Yount Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 "What I am really after in this post is some feedback on how to deal with the fear after something like this happens. " Breathe. Accept. Don't ruminate. Enjoy now. Seek tomorrow. Don't project the past into the future. Breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Bummer Carolyn, glad to hear you're ok. Falling Ice is no joke, and its always super important avoid that danger...but you don't need me to tell you that. It was a smart descision to rap off the route imediately. Sometimes that is a tough call to make when in shock. It's always my first instinct to tough it out and keep going. Earlier this season I caught a large chunk (or at least it felt pretty damn big) straight on top of my helmet. Probably the best place it could have hit me, but it stil came from about 200'+ above. It rattled me for sure. I'm not any more scared to ice climb now, just alot more cautious about where I choose to hang out. Just take this as a learning experience. Always trust your instincts, and if you don't feel comfortable about what your partner is doing, tell them right away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teogo Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Carolyn; I found I was never the same after my close call(s). I to consider myself a very safe climber, as my partners do, with lots of experience. I certainly enjoyed my climbing career afterwards, but when it came to red-lining, pushing the envelope, I found that I just did not have it anymore. Fortunately climbing is about more than just walking the quick of the plank, but I went through a process, over several years, of re-evaluating what I enjoyed about climbing. Even a quick glimpse into the "never more" can have that effect. Cultivate the voice that says "not today", and play safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceScrewed Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 After 25 years of being chased by a rope, I can only say, that in the end it's a stupid and meaningless activity...welcome to the club (and even though we don't collect dues, it's still great that you remain a non-dues paying member). Forever ago I took a 50 footer on a C5 pitch and at the bottom of the stretched rope was about 2 feet from a ledge that I was sure would leave me flattened or crippled, at best. When you fall like that time slows down and you have plenty of time to think about what might happen (although the rope jerk comes way before you expect it). After shaking for 15 minutes I rapped off with my partner. My climbing was quite tentative after that and about a year later, after continuing to flog myself up routes in spite of significant mental discomfort, I stopped climbing for a few years. I'm pleased to report that when I came back to climbing I was at it harder than ever. For what it's worth (and that isn't much), do what feels right. After all, it's only fun if it's fun. Belay Vobiscum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 rat, That's a different thread dude. Comon, follow along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_red_dog Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Yes getting back at the climbing game after injury/accident can take a toll on you mentally. The important thing is getting back on the horse. Thinking about what got you interested in climbing in the first place will hopefully help overcome the obvious fears. Climbing for me has produced thoughts like " what the heck am i doing on the side of a wall ? I should be home drinking on the couch". The challenge, sense of accomplishment, the scenery, and exercise, that climbing gives me definatley overcomes the few questioning thoughts that occasionally flutter into my head. Glad to here your OK carolyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted March 12, 2002 Author Share Posted March 12, 2002 Thank you all for your replies. Its really helpful to know that other folks have gone thru the same mental process I am. It seems as if it has been very easy to discuss the "technical" aspect of what happened...how things could have been done differently, how some of it could have only been avoided by not climbing at all, etc. Much harder to get those involved to discuss how it affected everyone's mental state. I woke up this morning with my head a little more clear. Im by far ready to give up. I think back to one of the first things I said on the way to the hospital..."why the hell do I want to climb when shit like this happens?" After about 5 seconds I came back with, "why the hell do I drive my car when accidents can happen?" The answer...because I want to...because it serves some purpose for me and Im willing to accept the risks. I have control over many things while driving , as I do while climbing. There will always be those uncertainties...the uncontrollable. But if I live life focusing on the what COULD happen, Im going to miss out on a lot of what IS happening! This is not to say I wont be a little tentative or nervous, especially on the ice. But Im not going to let it stop me from enjoying what I love. Thanks again to everyone for hearing me out! Mattp...I must go back to my old ending... BE WELL!BE SAFE!!!!carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Carolyn, i nearly died last fall, fell of a ledge 800' up and caught myself on a bush by one hand as i was going over. was scared of exposure for a while after that, almost stopped climbing for 3 months but didnt really realize i was doing it (stopping) until later. i would say, focus on what you like about climbing and seek out situations that maximize that and minimize fear. oh yeah, and dont climb 2 at a time on ice cause stuff comes off ... and it will be rock season soon anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: oh yeah, and dont climb 2 at a time on ice cause stuff comes off ... It's interesting that the latest Techtip in Climbing http://www.climbing.com/Pages/Techtip_pages/210/techtip210_alpine.html was on this very subject, suggesting that it is a great time saving technique to have two seconds climbing at once. Hmm. Kind of makes you think twice about following advice from a stranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Originally posted by Dru:[QB]Carolyn, i nearly died last fall, fell of a ledge 800' up and caught myself on a bush by one hand as i was going over. Former George or George W.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 If you must follow simutaneously, be the faster of the pair so you aren't the one eating the dinner plates. I just read about a guy who had an arm severed by a falling Ice chunk on Mt. Rainier. Sounds like something out of a movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Bronco: If you must follow simutaneously, be the faster of the pair so you aren't the one eating the dinner plates.I just read about a guy who had an arm severed by a falling Ice chunk on Mt. Rainier. Sounds like something out of a movie. That reminds me of the old joke about two hikers in the woods who come across a grizzly bear. The bear charges them and one says to the other, "We'll never out run that grizzly!" His friend replies, " I don't have to out run the bear-- only you!" But seriously, I think I'd rather be hit with a rock or ice than kick a rock/ice down on my partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Matt: It's interesting that the latest Techtip in Climbing http://www.climbing.com/Pages/Techtip_pages/210/techtip210_alpine.html was on this very subject, suggesting that it is a great time saving technique to have two seconds climbing at once. Hmm. Kind of makes you think twice about following advice from a stranger. thats alpine climbing (speed is safety) not brittle waterfall ice (shelter is safety) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Elvis: Originally posted by Dru:[QB]Carolyn, i nearly died last fall, fell of a ledge 800' up and caught myself on a bush by one hand as i was going over. Former George or George W.? No, a bush that actually did something useful once in its life, and also one that reduces co2 emissions on a daily basis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Matt: That reminds me of the old joke about two hikers in the woods who come across a grizzly bear. The bear charges them and one says to the other, "We'll never out run that grizzly!" His friend replies, " I don't have to out run the bear-- only you!" "why are you carrying that .22, the thing wont kill a grizzly?" "oh thats not for the grizzly, thats to shoot you in the knee so you run slower than me" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 well, i wish I had followed my gut and said I didnt want to simul climb. But the leader is someone I respected- and still DO respect a great deal. I figured he wouldnt put us in an unsafe situation. the person climbing with me had only simul climbed once on rock. His tools were NOT very sharp - which he brought up right before we started climbing. I emphasized to stay NEXT to me and far to the right... not go above, because I knew he would be knocking down dinnerplates. He wound up below me at one point, so I took that opportunity to stand on the ledge to warm up my hands. He continued past as I started cleaning the next screw and kept trying to warm up my hands. There are so many "shouldnt have done's" involved in the situation, all leading to the incident and difficulty getting me down. I dont think there is any one person, or thing to blame. It was a combination of factors. And matt...I agree, although I dont enjoy the pain and such which goes along with being hit. I would probly be much worse off in the head if I was the one who threw it down. I can only hope that explains why my partner is acting so strange ....blaming everyone and everything else. I think there is a lot of guilt flying around between the three of us. Although, there is obviously a time and place for simul climbing, it will be a loooooooooong time before you see me climbing close to anyone! [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: carolyn ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaresca Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 I have had 2 accidents,one a marthon heli rescue off Forbiden which included a compound fracture of the tib-fib and smashed helmet. The other, a block of ice broke my scapula and knocked me out. Prior to these I had the normal close calls, but until I inccured a major injuiry and long recovery period, I didn't have any lasting mental effects. Taking a clean air 80 footer is not the same as 40 feet of tummbling, smashing cart-wheeling down a jagged not so vertical cliff. That for me has had lasting effects. I'm far more cautious and I'm always making sure there is good pro above. The bigger problem is the feeling of being trapped on a climb because of inquiry to me or my partner, this has kept me from presuing my bigger objectives, which I use to dream about. I battle with these feelings on just about every climb big or small. Maybe some of the hardmen can put such accidents behind them, but I find it very diffcult. It might also has something to do with age, perhaps if the injuries occured when I was 22 instead of 42 it would be easier to move on unaffected or at least the physical recovery would be quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier_dup1 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Carolyn, Glad to hear that you are in one piece, and starting to work on the processing of the event and how it may affect you in the future. Having pulled a rock that knocked my belayer unconscious, then taking a 35-footer into the talus several years back, I can say it sticks with you if you don't work on the processing right away. A couple of things I've noticed - if I'm concentrated on the climb - the motion, the rock, the beta, I'm usually fine - I'm a redpoint climber more than an on-sight climber anyway. If I start to worry about the consequences - falling, etc, I can get the shakes which can stop me cold. With regards to that, there have been a few threads on CC.com regarding mental games and leading. Someone above mentioned assessing why you climb and what you are out there for, and setting your goals accordingly - I agree. For the crappy days where I didn't have me goals set, or lost track of them, I've also had plenty of excellent days where they did fall into place - And another thing - if it really begins to bother you and the fears keep you from enjoying climbing - don't forget about asking for some outside help - not that a bunch of climbing yahoos are any help - I was talking to a counselor some time ago and mentioned the accident and aftereffects, and she noted that they were typical symptoms of PTSS - because of that, I've got a few other tricks to use now to keep my head in the game. So go out, have fun, be safe, remember to breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Matt: ....But seriously, I think I'd rather be hit with a rock or ice than kick a rock/ice down on my partner. I will climb with you anytime bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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