Sol Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 After a couple lame descents in which we had to make our own rap anchors with gear and downclimb glacial ice with nut tools, I think its time for a north wall hammer. Can anybody recommend one, or do you know where to get one ( i think MEC carries somethin)? Also any comments or stories about when your NWH saved your butt, or took your partners eye out, or something. Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 True North Wall Hammer's are a bit hard to find nowadays. A more versatile solution is to buy a classic pick for your straight shaft Ice Tool - and use that. But NWHammers convery a certain hardman status, I will say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 umm, no. Â a NWH is the size of a piton hammer, but has a pick on one side. much lighter and smaller than a technical ice tool. Â in a recent search, i found 4 on the market, one each from camp, grivel, c-m and one other i can't remember. they vary in weight - heavier seemed to get you a better ice tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Northwall hammers suck ass for glaciers, cause they don't have a point on the bottom. I too use a straight shaft tool for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Great cleaning tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 imo it's hard to justify the extra weight considering how poorly they perform on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 j_b said: imo it's hard to justify the extra weight considering how poorly they perform on ice.  They’re not designed to be great on glaciers. They’re designed to be barely sufficient on glaciers to get you to the base of the rock. Once on the stone, they kick any ice tool’s ass in the placing pitons/cleaning aid nuts department. a specialized tool, to be sure... but considering that they weigh the same as a super-light ice axe, they're a lot more useful on technical rock routes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 NW hammer is superseded by the 3rd tool. Simond Fox or Grivel Compact 3rd are the 2 most pop options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 J-b is right I used one on Bridalveil falls and hated every minute of the climb. (an old Chouinard model) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) btw, at least two of the ones i was looking at (sorry, can't remember which right now) have stubby little spikes on the bottom. maybe this is a terminolgy thing, the tools dru mentions are what i'd consider a NWH Â (i don't own one (yet), but i've borrowed them or had a partner with one on several big climbs - and i'm sold on the concept for certain kinds of routes) Edited October 2, 2003 by forrest_m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 forrest_m said: j_b said: imo it's hard to justify the extra weight considering how poorly they perform on ice.  They’re not designed to be great on glaciers. They’re designed to be barely sufficient on glaciers to get you to the base of the rock. Once on the stone, they kick any ice tool’s ass in the placing pitons/cleaning aid nuts department. a specialized tool, to be sure... but considering that they weigh the same as a super-light ice axe, they're a lot more useful on technical rock routes  My short X-15 straight shaft is just as good as any NWH for cleaning and hammering pins. Just a tad bit more unwieldy. Its worth the tradeoff of having a point at the end and it climbs ice damn good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 ok I lied I meant Alpine hammer  link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Peter_Puget said: ok I lied I meant Alpine hammer  link  That would be close to what forrestm incorrectly thinks of as a North Wall Hammer. Per Lowe, Chouinard, etc. North Wall Hammer's are Ice Axe's with a Hammer Head & Shorter shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I have an SMC Himalayan 50 cm hammer that I carry as a second tool for routes like Liberty Ridge and North Ridge of Baker. I also carry it for the senario you describe, approach and descent for an alpine rock route. I works very well for both of these purposes, but is pretty heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 forrest_m said: j_b said: imo it's hard to justify the extra weight considering how poorly they perform on ice.  They’re not designed to be great on glaciers. They’re designed to be barely sufficient on glaciers to get you to the base of the rock. Once on the stone, they kick any ice tool’s ass in the placing pitons/cleaning aid nuts department. a specialized tool, to be sure... but considering that they weigh the same as a super-light ice axe, they're a lot more useful on technical rock routes  i understand the logic but i think i have perhaps used mine a total of twice. mostly for the reasons already mentioned by specialed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 like, this is what i mean. Â Â note the shortness. as i said, a specialized tool, but one i wish i had in my quiver. Â this is what i will continue to call a north wall hammer. the people i know who own such things call them north wall hammers. if i'm wrong, i will at least continue to be consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) oops. i am with you now. this is what i use as well. i guess i'll have to reconsider my use of the terminology  is yours really the size of a piton hammer? Edited October 2, 2003 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 grivel compact third is a nice solid piece... also there are some new compact tools 45 or 50 cm long that have hammers, like the DMM tool they are discontinuing... and SMC still makes a north wall hammer in a traditional axe dimensions as per the above poster. Â compact piton tool with ice pick, grivel compact third, for old schoolers in knickers and wool sweaters, the SMC Â and there's a few in between, as mentioned above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I have this little Grivel tool that rocks as a second tool. It will bang in a piton and weighs a lot less than an alpine hammer and is way more versatile. I searched Grivel on google but couldn't find it. It would the tool in my left hand below. I bought it in Banff for my kid, but I "borrow" it all the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Cassin sells the Orion as well, only $80. Kind of sucks as an ice tool but has served me well in its limited use. Climbaxe will also sell it with the reversed pick. Â ORION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I think I saw the Grivel compact 3rd tool at Pro Mountain Sports Last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 This should be in the Gear Critic forum... Â I've got a short Bulldog that I use as a third tool, and extra glacier tool. It hammers in Pickets much better then my Camp aluminum glacier axe, and I wouldn't be afraid to use it on a hard ice pitch. I even top rope with it for practice just in case I break a pick someday. Â Bulldogs rock, I got mine at Second Wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 one of the Best alpine hammers out there CHARLET MOSER GOULOTTE and climbs waterfall ice very well I have the 45cm version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=228679&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 thanks for all the killer info folks. i'm glad I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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