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Paco

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Distel32 said:

I would love to see somebody boulder a 30ft mixed line. I think it is a bit lame to say that it is a boulder problem, because nobody wants to fall wearing pons with tools

 

i learned the hard way not to spot people mixed bouldering in grotto canyon. sharp points hurt spotters.

 

BUT think of the possibilities with either 1) kevlar coated mats or 2) 8 feet of soft pow pow

 

after all jyoti vyenne sent the FA of Svoboda 40' M9 in banff ropeless, because the cave its in had filled in with avvy debris making the route all of 8 feet off the ground

 

i guess you missed it distel tongue.gif videos may be available

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Regardless of whether it's mixed or not, it's still a sport climb, and a line of bolts ending in the middle of a wall looks like crap. At least the Heffner Creek climbs don't seen any traffic other than climbers, and only in the winter. Bolting mixed lines in an area that is popular for any number of user groups year round is asking for trouble.

 

Look out Paco - you might get your ass banned for even bringing this up. rolleyes.gif

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Dru and Polish Bob could probably name the routes (I can't), but I think that a number of guys that have been accused or engaging in little more than roadside antics have put up some wicked new mixed routes in the mountains, sans bolts - and relied upon the strength and technique that they developed on bolted routes to do so. If I am not mistaken there is even an article on this phenomenon in this year's AAJ.

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glassgowkiss said:

Billygoat said:

Bolts are just a safe way of pushing the envelope. People are clambering all over these areas. If you want a truly "untouched" experience go to where the masses don't.

tongue.gif

 

Hey Glassgow, time to put up or shut up! Start pushing the grade around here. You keep whining about this place yet here you are. Give me a couple years and I'll join you. The North Cascades rock and there is a lot of untouched potential here...

hey goatblower- first of all i don't diss people when they put up new routes - unlike a lot of this crowd still debating on bolting issues. second, i just stated a simple fact that there aren't any hard routes by todays standards- rock or mixed, period. if you'd open last couple of issues of Alpinist you would see at what level people climb.

last winter i did put up a new route- i didn't see you line up (or anybody else as the matter of fact) to repeat it. as the matter of fact a day before another party bailed from under the same face as i recall (quite competent climbers), so maybe you should shut up. moon.gif

plus i just spent 2 months in europe climbing (where btw i managed to send 7c+, how many have you done sucker??), so now i have to make some doe. werd

I agree that there have been no advancements in climbing done in the PNW, for whatever reasons. But sport climbing does indeed provide training for extreme trad routes. Pope. You ever heard of The Honeymoon if Over, on the Diamond? 13c at close to 14k. Who did it? Oh, right, that 'sport monkey' Caldwell. How'd he get so strong? That's right, clipping bolts! It's the exact same progression that's happening in alpinism/mixed climbing. That new line on Howse Peak, it's bold, hard, and unrepeated. Who did it? Oh, right, the modern 'bolt junkies' Will Gadd and Co. So shut up. It's people like you who keep the level of climbing down by making some pathetic excuses. LAME!

 

Glasgow, I agree with your sentiments, but don't argue on the basis of individual climbing abilities. Makes you look like an asshole, just because Goat doesn't climb 13s doesn't mean his opinion isn't legit. wave.gif

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ehmmic said:

The route is only about 35 feet in length. Isn't that more of a highball problem. Seems like a stretch to call it a route.

 

I can understand your reasoning ehmmic. Instead of mocking what some might call ignorant I invite you to keep reading.

 

There is some truthful intent behind your comment obviously.

 

I am not "bouldering" these "routes" and I could care less to go there. But if I was to visit the area I am sure that my opinion would be confirmed. My opinion which I have not stated yet...

 

Back to my point- Which was my first one liner that created a little more discussion along Paco's initial lines even though he may not have been aware of the reasoning behind the anchor placement from the start. Which I believe he did not... It's a funny way how these flame wars rage on sometimes.

 

Questions for Pope- Have you enjoyed reading about Sean Easton and Ueli Steck's route on the East Face of Mt Dickey called Alpine Poetry? A nice piece of work IMHO.

 

Another new route if you will was put up by Willl Gadd, Kevin Mahoney, and Scott Semple's route Howse of Cards for instance had certainly raised standards in NA. It did not read any rap bolting for that one. What do you have to say about that route?

 

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pope said:

Paul_detrick said:

I don't get how you can say its ok if its a mixed climb, but not a sport route. There still bolts,they have not changed. If its good for one it has to be good for all. So make up your mind.

 

MattP is good at making his own points, but in this case, since you may have misunderstood his message, I think he's suggesting that because these new mixed climbs are kind of new/novel/rare, somehow having a few of them around is less obnoxious than the dime-a-dozen sport routes along I-90.

 

Difficult, long mixed climbs have been put up in the Rockies and often go unrepeated for decades. Some haven't been repeated. And they weren't rap bolted. Part of difficult mixed climbing has always been dealing with the diffulties in arranging protection. You think that you can somehow throw that aspect of mixed climbing out and do this sport/ice monkey busines....and this is going to prepare you for difficult mixed climbing in the high mountains, where there is no string of bolts? You guys who claim to be interested in pushing the standards of ice/mixed climbing are just taking the lazy way out. Instead of climbing big, bold and truly challenging mixed routes, you're piddling around on some safe-n-sane, road-side pitch that had been arrogantly bolted, under the assumption that those who pursue winter sports at the pass will benefit from these permanent modifications.

first let's get the story straight- pope- you have no idea what hard climbing is all about, whether it's rock, mixed or ice. now, before tou get your panties all bunched up in a wad stop for a second and think. what's your hardest rock climb, what's your hardest mixed? do you even know how does M8 or 5.14 look like? you talk loud, but talk minus action= zilch. show us the way, please. send some hard crack- i have a perfect one for you- the great arch @ squamish. let's see how you do it. or maybe City park? you talk a lot of shit about ethics, bolts =bad, bold= good. but that's where it ends, talk. produce some back up or stop spraying your nonsense biatch.

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I just don't think the ends justify the means in cases like this. Glassgowkiss mentions the standards being so much higher in the Canadian Rockies and Europe...and he's right. - they are. I think the climate has way more to do with that than anything else though. I don't understand the sense of entitlement some people have when it comes to bolting wherever they feel an area has "potential" and not considering the fact that maybe some people wouldn't want to see the hardware attached to the rock.

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Where is the "Challenge Thread?" Someone should post some of photos of unclimbed winter lines in the Cascades and see who throws down this season...

 

And I think that Polish Bob is right on. Say what you want but he walks the talk.

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JayB said:

Where is the "Challenge Thread?" Someone should post some of photos of unclimbed winter lines in the Cascades and see who throws down this season...

aqui!

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How long have some of these routes been in place? I think those routes in the pictures have been up for several years. Perhaps I am thinking of someplace else.

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Sphinx said:

glassgowkiss said:

Billygoat said:

Bolts are just a safe way of pushing the envelope. People are clambering all over these areas. If you want a truly "untouched" experience go to where the masses don't.

tongue.gif

 

Hey Glassgow, time to put up or shut up! Start pushing the grade around here. You keep whining about this place yet here you are. Give me a couple years and I'll join you. The North Cascades rock and there is a lot of untouched potential here...

hey goatblower- first of all i don't diss people when they put up new routes - unlike a lot of this crowd still debating on bolting issues. second, i just stated a simple fact that there aren't any hard routes by todays standards- rock or mixed, period. if you'd open last couple of issues of Alpinist you would see at what level people climb.

last winter i did put up a new route- i didn't see you line up (or anybody else as the matter of fact) to repeat it. as the matter of fact a day before another party bailed from under the same face as i recall (quite competent climbers), so maybe you should shut up. moon.gif

plus i just spent 2 months in europe climbing (where btw i managed to send 7c+, how many have you done sucker??), so now i have to make some doe. werd

I agree that there have been no advancements in climbing done in the PNW, for whatever reasons. But sport climbing does indeed provide training for extreme trad routes. Pope. You ever heard of The Honeymoon if Over, on the Diamond? 13c at close to 14k. Who did it? Oh, right, that 'sport monkey' Caldwell. How'd he get so strong? That's right, clipping bolts! It's the exact same progression that's happening in alpinism/mixed climbing. That new line on Howse Peak, it's bold, hard, and unrepeated. Who did it? Oh, right, the modern 'bolt junkies' Will Gadd and Co. So shut up. It's people like you who keep the level of climbing down by making some pathetic excuses. LAME!

 

Glasgow, I agree with your sentiments, but don't argue on the basis of individual climbing abilities. Makes you look like an asshole, just because Goat doesn't climb 13s doesn't mean his opinion isn't legit. wave.gif

it is legit to the point. and the point was i don't diss people for trying to put up new climbs. i am an elitist prick, so what? i just wanted to get some facts straight. and at least i can back up my spray with some climbing, that's all. i am an asshole and proud of it. i weare it like a badge.

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I heard a story from someone who claimed to know that the "Great Arch" at Squamish is actually called "Zoo2" but the name was changed by the guidebook author because he thought the latter name was silly.

 

I know the author lurks on this site cause he sends me emails whenever I take shots at his soft grading system tongue.gif Maybe he will post if I continue!!! wave.gif

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first let's get the story straight- pope- you have no idea what hard climbing is all about, whether it's rock, mixed or ice. now, before tou get your panties all bunched up in a wad stop for a second and think. what's your hardest rock climb, what's your hardest mixed? do you even know how does M8 or 5.14 look like? you talk loud, but talk minus action= zilch. show us the way, please. send some hard crack- i have a perfect one for you- the great arch @ squamish. let's see how you do it. or maybe City park? you talk a lot of shit about ethics, bolts =bad, bold= good. but that's where it ends, talk. produce some back up or stop spraying your nonsense biatch.

 

Mr glassgowkiss your resorting to elitism have rendered large amounts of your argument to garbage in some eyes. Although I think we agree on some points. Maybe Pope and yourself should both get on similarly rated rock routes within arm swinging distance and start slugging it out at mid height? I promise to bring my video recorder for the entertainment. hahaha.gif

 

Still though- You do make some good points where I am able to wade through the anger and decipher.

 

Keep it up.

 

666

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got yur goat kissyface moon.gif

 

Glad to see you got that aggro-essive attitude so necessary for a strong, bold, intrepid soul that will take us into the 21st century of climbing. Hey I'm with you bro' read my previous post. This place can be the arena of outstanding accomplishments...

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Figger_Eight said:

I just don't think the ends justify the means in cases like this. Glassgowkiss mentions the standards being so much higher in the Canadian Rockies and Europe...and he's right. - they are. I think the climate has way more to do with that than anything else though. I don't understand the sense of entitlement some people have when it comes to bolting wherever they feel an area has "potential" and not considering the fact that maybe some people wouldn't want to see the hardware attached to the rock.

but we need a place to train somewhere, don't we? most of the crag areas are too low for mixed (temps stay above freezing).

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glassgowkiss said:

Figger_Eight said:

I just don't think the ends justify the means in cases like this. Glassgowkiss mentions the standards being so much higher in the Canadian Rockies and Europe...and he's right. - they are. I think the climate has way more to do with that than anything else though. I don't understand the sense of entitlement some people have when it comes to bolting wherever they feel an area has "potential" and not considering the fact that maybe some people wouldn't want to see the hardware attached to the rock.

but we need a place to train somewhere, don't we? most of the crag areas are too low for mixed (temps stay above freezing).

 

who needs freezing temps for dry tooling anyway confused.gif new "M12" (no ice all dry tooling in a chipped out slate quarry cave) Too Fast Too Furious in Scotland climbed in the middle of summer yellaf.gif

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Billygoat said:

What's up with Glassgowkissyface?! He's all puffed up like a poison toad tonight mushsmile.gif He's all talking smack on the "Smith Classics" thread 'n ' shite.... wazzup.gif

i just think sunshine is more like 11d (used to be 12a) and the gear in that rock sucks. and i strongly belive that the best routes at smith are 12 and above. and not because of the grade, but the quality of rock and moves themselves. and i think people get intimidated by the numbers too easy and they sell themselves short. werd bigdrink.gif

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