Attitude Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 What's the best AT gear for a beginner? Never downhill skiied before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 'youre entering a world of pain.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 lummox said: 'youre entering a world of pain.' It's either AT or ice climbing ... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Fat modern skis, big boots, bindings. Buy cheap skis, you'll really thrash them while learning. Get a ski with a waist 70mm or bigger. Use boots like the Scarpa Lazer, which are soft enough to learn on, but will be fine when you're good. Get bindings with decent release. Go ski. Oh, get cheap old alpine poles. You'll fall a lot, and probably bend them. Buy good poles when you'er not a beginner anymore. Used alpine skis are a good choice. I like the Fritschi bindings. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Some may disagree but if you have never downhill skied before, I would recommend paying for a lesson by a professional instructor. You'll probably only need one, then put on the mileage. There are a lot of good skiers out there but few can patiently articulate exactly what you need to do. You could probably get by w/o the lesson, but I would bet it helps out a lot. Just like in climbing, there are engrams that get ingrained in muscle memory (the reason you can come back to skiing or climbing after years away from the sport). It's really hard to unlearn bad habits, so those first few times on skis are pretty important for development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 Sphinx said: Fat modern skis, big boots, bindings. Buy cheap skis, you'll really thrash them while learning. Get a ski with a waist 70mm or bigger. How fat is phat for a fat boy (200 lbs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Most popular skis today are about 78mm and up. Skis are getting fatter every year. For 200lbs, in Cascade glop, I'd say 75 and up, at 180-190cm long is fine. As the waist of the ski gets fatter, the shorter the ski should be. And remember: it's much easier to learn on shorter skis. Â As for instructors, I never had the money, but I had a few friends who helped me out. If you do have the money, a lesson or two will probably help shorten the learning curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 But as for gear, a modern downhill ski mounted with a binding like the fritschi titanal or similar would be pretty forgiving, though obviously a little heavy. You can put downhill boots in these, or go for something like the Scarpa Denali or Laser, which give plenty of support (The Denali these days seems too stiff). One problem with AT boots is they seem to make you stand up a bit too much, which puts you in the back seat unless you focus on good technique and really push your shins into the tongue. I'm no hotshot skier, just stuff I've noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_a Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 don't skimp on boots, boots are probably more important than the skis or bindings that you go with. Scarpa Lazers would be a good choice because you'd then have the option of using either Fritschi bindings or Dynafit bindings in the future. As a general rule, Scarpa boots fit a narrower foot, Garmonts fit a wider foot and just about all boots this season come with a thermo-moldable liner which is warmer, lighter, and more comfy than the old stock liners. You'll probably be wanting to do some resort skiing just to get your downhill skiing skills some practice, depending on how much you weigh, you might want to think about the Fritschi Freeride binding, its built burly enough to supposedly handle the abuse of resort skiing. Personally I like the Dynafit binding system, but it may be a bit too user unfriendly for someone whos just learning to ski. Look for some used alpine boards or some from last season, short and fat is generally a good way to go, I'd stay away from any skis with a waist narrower than 70mm, and a waist of 75 might be the best bet for an all-around set of skis. Definitely get cheap poles, go to Goodwill and pick up a $2 pair. Might wanna think about picking up a helmet too, I've been ran down by out of control skiers several times at resorts. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 iain said: But as for gear, a modern downhill ski mounted with a binding like the fritschi titanal or similar would be pretty forgiving, though obviously a little heavy. You can put downhill boots in these, or go for something like the Scarpa Denali or Laser, which give plenty of support (The Denali these days seems too stiff). One problem with AT boots is they seem to make you stand up a bit too much, which puts you in the back seat unless you focus on good technique and really push your shins into the tongue. I'm no hotshot skier, just stuff I've noticed. Iain, you're on Freerides, R:EX, and Denali's, right? I've never skied downhill gear, but I'm on Diamir 3, Mira, and Denali, but I'd say when I buckle everything down, the forward lean on the Denali is about as far forward as I'd like to get. Otherwise, couldn't you put a wedge under the liner to lean you forward? Â As for boot fit, my feet are wide and flat, the Scarpas fit me decently. I'm planning on getting thermo liners though, I need to lighten these boots up. AT rules, you'll have a blast once you've got the basics down, Attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Yeah I was just trying to say in general you'll lose some performance using AT boots. The Denalis can be cranked down, though I have probs getting in that 2nd lean position. I think my left foot cant or something is messed too, since I can ski down on one ski no prob with the right but the left starts wandering all over. Â If I were to get a new set of skis, I would get Atomic TourGuide SL's, Dynafit and that Scarpa F1 so I can look like Sting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I was gonna post a very similar question, except I have some downhill experience. Good advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 you could get some of those alpine trekkers but everyone I know who owns those is selling them within a year or so because they are sick of the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Silvretta bindings rock. Very durable and take either the AT boot or a standard mountaineering boot.  Scarpa Denali = NOT a beginner boot  Don't start out in mountaineering boots, you'll get you ass handed to you.  I agree with others (above) that the boots are the most important thing for an AT beginner.  Have fun....   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 iain said: Yeah I was just trying to say in general you'll lose some performance using AT boots. The Denalis can be cranked down, though I have probs getting in that 2nd lean position. I think my left foot cant or something is messed too, since I can ski down on one ski no prob with the right but the left starts wandering all over. Â If I were to get a new set of skis, I would get Atomic TourGuide SL's, Dynafit and that Scarpa F1 so I can look like Sting. I like the idea of getting a light AT setup, ie dynafit bindings, for summer skis with long approaches. Â I had trouble getting into 2nd lean mode, too, until I got frustrated. Now I just undo all the buckles, lean forward, so the liner is out of the way, and push the cuff forward with my hands. The tongue is too stiff to buckle everything down and lean forward. Â Did you lose the little cant key thingie? Should be easy to adjust. Â My setup definitely sucks to carry to snow. But when going down....oh, baby.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 iain said: you could get some of those alpine trekkers but everyone I know who owns those is selling them within a year or so because they are sick of the weight. Â I have a pair for sale, PM me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 How about these boots (Lowa Stuktura GTX)? They are about my size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Attitude said: How about these boots (Lowa Stuktura GTX)? They are about my size. Â Â Great boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fejas Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 For a beginner, get something heavy, a heavy ski with a tight turn radis will make learning to ski a breeze... something like the HEAD - monster... whats your price range? Boot are very important the stiffer the better for a beginner and down hill... I really like Marker bindings. It doesn't matter what brand of boots, as long as they're a decent weight, stiff, and they fit your feet really good... A ski like the head, with markers, and a stiff boot would be a great down hill set up, but would not be convertible, well i guess you could but it would be a pain... Get a lesson! they are really not that expensive, and its from an unbiased person that gives lessons all day long... I had one when I started, and it help... course that was a long time ago too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 if you don't know how to ski yet, and go for taking the pro-lesson at a hill then make sure they don't spend the whole day teaching you to snow plow. (pizza frenchfries pizza frenchfries ) Â because snowconditions in which you can snowplow in the ungroomed backcountry are the exception rather than the rule. Â Good survival skilz to master are side-slipping, those windmilly kickturns whatever they are called. STOPPING. Getting up once you fall down. Getting skis on and off on a steep pawdery slope etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaper_Jeffy Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Rodchester said: Scarpa Denali = NOT a beginner boot  Why do you say this?  Powerful, heavy boots will be easier to learn on, and a lot more fun.  Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thing about Denali is that the forward flex is nonexistant. I'm an intermediate skier, and I'm fat, but I have trouble flexing that thing. I have to consciously think about it. The Lazer might be a better beginner's boot for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 fern said:Getting skis on and off on a steep pawdery slope etc. one reason not to use step-in bindings  though silvrettas can take forever to get on too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I agree with the comment get ready to hurt if you're going off the slopes...I'd ski a few days on my own and then get lessons like Iain said. Do ya really want to buy gear at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Gaper_Jeffy said: Powerful, heavy boots will be easier to learn on, and a lot more fun. I'd have to disagree - if you're a beginner the extra performance (aka "fun") offered by a stiffer boot is counteracted by the inability of most beginners to manage this. You don't see many beginner Alpine Skiers in race boots, do you? Why would AT be any different? Â Scarpa Laser's would be an excellent boot - and you can ski most anything under the sun with them. If your just learning to ski I'd recommend 170-180cm for skis - you may sink a bit more on the uphill, but the downhill will be much friendlier. Â If you want to learn quickly - spend 4-5 days continuous at a ski hill/resort with a lesson or 2. By continuing to build skills you'd be amazed how fast you can improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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