Sphinx Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Scarpa Denali = NOT a beginner boot  I say this because is is a very stiff boot with TOO MUCH control. A beginner will not do well in a boot that is too sensitive to every slight move, twist, turn, shift of weight, etc.  Don't make the assumption that a stiffer boot is better for everyone, otherwise all boots would be stiff.  Also the Lazer will tour better. The Denali does not tour as well (too stiff).    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventuregal Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I read this thread but never really got a concise answer... Is skiing on AT gear much different (downhill) than skiing on regular alpine gear?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 adventuregal said: I read this thread but never really got a concise answer... Is skiing on AT gear much different (downhill) than skiing on regular alpine gear?? The actual skiing is the same. The equipment isn't as durable for jumping/jibbing, etc. and won't have the same control as race boots. FWIW people now use Freerides (an AT binding) on Alpine Skis with Alpine Boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Â adventuregal said: I read this thread but never really got a concise answer... Is skiing on AT gear much different (downhill) than skiing on regular alpine gear?? Â Â -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Â Â The actual skiing is the same. The equipment isn't as durable for jumping/jibbing, etc. and won't have the same control as race boots. FWIW people now use Freerides (an AT binding) on Alpine Skis with Alpine Boots. Â I agree. It is the same in many ways the same, but you always rob Peter to pay Paul. Â I ski lifts with mine from time to time and have no problems, though I can tell when the gear is at its limits, and its limits are less than that of good downhill gear. I recently upgraded the skis and think that with a pair of the Scarpa Denalis I can step up the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 AT is getting closer and closer to real alpine gear. The Denali is damn near most alpine boots, and I'd be surprised if we don't get a truly bomber binding in the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I don't think the bindings are a problems at all ... the problem is that the boots must be able to tour/skate and go down hill. Â The Denali is the best (or certainly one of the best) at the steep downhill stuff. But it doesn't tour as well. It is a classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Touring and sking are two very different things, almost opposite. It is impossible to have a boot that Tours perfrectly and skis pefectly. If it skis beter it will worse at touring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Denali tours pretty damn good if you undo all buckles and let your foot move inside the shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 (edited) iain said: I think my left foot cant or something is messed too, since I can ski down on one ski no prob with the right but the left starts wandering all over. Sound like you definitely have a canting issue. The solution usually starts with having a good boot bed for your AT/Alpine boots. If your feet aren't flat in a boot then how can you expect to keep a proper ski edge. If that doesn't help then you might have to change the base of your boot some. My pa-in-law had 5 degrees ground off the bottom of his Alpine boots to get his leg straight. Some of the best boot fitters I know of are up in O'Canada. "Snowcovers" and I am not getting any kickbacks for this shameless ad. They are in Vancouver and Whistler(Next to the IGA) Â I have both AT and Alpine boots and ski's. I agree with going with used alpine ski's for AT gear. You will tear them up quickly. I also use my AT boots(Scarpa Tomba) when I go alpine with my daughters. Â BTW, the freshies are coming. There was snow in Montana at Big Sky on one of the webcams. Â -Mike Edited September 19, 2003 by mbcracken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencil_Pusher Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Yeah, thanks all, this is a good thread . I was wondering some of the very things addressed here. I tried unsuccessfully to do a search on Tua skis, seems someone's screen name is Tua. I grew up on Colorado snow and literally got my ass handed to me up at Baker when I moved here. I would like to try the AT setup though. Good luck to the beginner learning to ski in this liquid cement "Cascade glop". Maybe those curved skis help. Apparently Tua skis went out of business so Bent Gate Mountaineering and a couple other online stores have them for sale ~ $330, fyi. Those are the super-light skis, I think the Hydrogens weighed in at 1260g/ski at 178cm. Wildsnow.com has some good reading on the Dynafit system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Don't go too light for Cascade snow, the skis will get pushed around. Go fat, medium heavy, and shaped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 iain said: There are a lot of good skiers out there but few can patiently articulate exactly what you need to do. You could probably get by w/o the lesson, but I would bet it helps out a lot  Its funny, I have no problem introducing someone to climbimg (although I'm a newbie myself) but I wouldn't teach my best friend how to ski. It is just so painly boring to go that slow. If you are a descent skier and you try to teach someone that has never skied before, you probably aren't going to have any fun. I am not near patient enough to do that. Better to pay for a lesson from someone who doesn't mind not skiing anything for themselves.  Not directing this statement to anyone but if you are new to skiing, don't be surprise if your awesome climbing/awesome skier best friend who was very patient with you when you were learning to climb wants no part of teaching you to ski. Get a lesson and ski with other beginners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Dustin_B said:Not directing this statement to anyone but if you are new to skiing, don't be surprise if your awesome climbing/awesome skier best friend who was very patient with you when you were learning to climb wants no part of teaching you to ski. Get a lesson and ski with other beginners. The only thing worse than trying to teach a good friend how to ski is teaching a signifigant other how to ski. It's a recipe for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Ok, dumb question. Â The Freerides come with ski brakes, right? I'm trying to put an order together here and it *looks* like they are included but need to be sure as some of the time my new AT setup will be used in-bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencil_Pusher Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) Mmm... pro deal (couple of posts down)... Maybe I can afford a new AT setup this winter. I do need to get a job. How long must an REI employee wait before they can pro-deal? Or maybe even Big 5 Sporting Goods... Thankyou Marylou (for the idea) Edited October 23, 2003 by Pencil_Pusher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 they come with the standard brakes. Be sure to get the wider brakes if you have skis like the r:ex or something. The widths are listed on Black Diamond's site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Yeah, thanks, I'm trying to get all of my ducks in a row for this. I'm doing a Pro Deal, but I do it through their publicist because my PD is Media, and I don't want to take up a ton of this guy's time with all of my dumb questions. He does ski, though, and I figured I'd just give hime the dimensions of the skis I already bought and he can get the brake width and skin size right from that. Â The reason I was asking about the brakes has to do with the cost of the Freerides vs. the Diamir 3s. The 3s don't come with brakes, so the cost is basically the same if you add in the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 hope you have better luck on prodeal for those than I did. It took months. That was right when they came out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 cj001f said: Dustin_B said:Not directing this statement to anyone but if you are new to skiing, don't be surprise if your awesome climbing/awesome skier best friend who was very patient with you when you were learning to climb wants no part of teaching you to ski. Get a lesson and ski with other beginners. The only thing worse than trying to teach a good friend how to ski is teaching a signifigant other how to ski. It's a recipe for disaster. Â I'm thinking of checking out back country skiing this winter (using AT gear not tele). I used to be a pretty good skier (could get down most CA black diamonds fine with the occasional wipeout). I ended up switching to snowboarding but am not interested in snowshoeing behind the crowd nor a split board. Is there much about skiing technique in the back country that is totally different than in bounds? Do I need to take a lesson again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I would think you could pick back up and be right back where you were within days, even hours. I think skiing has a lot to do with engrams and muscle memory, and you just have to jog that memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 iain said: I think skiing has a lot to do with engrams and muscle memory, and you just have to jog that memory. no way. prioperception. yeah. that and a season lift pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 probably the best skill you can have for backcountry is a good hop turn that gets your skis out of the crud or breakable crust. I still need to work on this. Being able to get down breakable crust with some grace is the mark of a trully good skier, esp. when the consequences of a wipeout are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 ehmmic- Â the snow you will encounter in the backcountry is a completely different animal from what you area used to after skiing in ski areas. When it is deep, it is often bottomless rather than the more common eight (or even sixteen) inches over a hard base on a good day at the ski hill. When it is hard, it is often ice rather than some kind of "packed powder." And then there are a myriad variations of breakable crust, slush, slop, refrozen avalanche debris, bombed out woods, ..... Â Be prepared for some new experiences, but I would think you can head for the hills and probably have a decent time without thinking you need ski lessons all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neversummer Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 ehmmic said: I'm thinking of checking out back country skiing this winter (using AT gear not tele). I used to be a pretty good skier (could get down most CA black diamonds fine with the occasional wipeout). I ended up switching to snowboarding but am not interested in snowshoeing behind the crowd nor a split board. Is there much about skiing technique in the back country that is totally different than in bounds? Do I need to take a lesson again? Â MASTER the kick turn, it may safe your ass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 iain said: probably the best skill you can have for backcountry is a good hop turn that gets your skis out of the crud or breakable crust. I still need to work on this. Being able to get down breakable crust with some grace is the mark of a trully good skier, esp. when the consequences of a wipeout are bad. Â That's hilarious. I just had someone tell me that thirty seasons of lift-serviced skiing was not going to put me ahead of the curve for AT skiing. Â I got the distinct impression that the brutal finesse that is the hop turn, and defying the evil breakable crust was going to be meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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