Zenolith Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 A little essay I wrote. Might be a bit esoteric for some readers. It begins; I do not know of a free society, past or present. I consider a free society one in which freedom is accessible to everyone and I define freedom like Thoreau; one is free if they can excersise their own moral sense (but not a lack thereof). One of the things I love to do the most involves a climb to the summit of some remote peak where (if I can stand to sit there) I sit and feel things that very few other people will ever feel. It is no overstatement to say that while I cling with human claws to a knife-edge ridge with the wind in my face and a thousand feet of air below my feet I feel a reverence and a humbling smallness that I have never felt anywhere else. The experience in its entirety is spiritual for me. It is a lonely state often made more so because I like to do it alone. It is a pilgrimage of sorts that allows me to let all the extraneousness of life fall away leaving only the ?essential facts of life?. Imagine then that I am often required by a new ?rule? to pay for this experience. Congress has allowed the US Forest Service to charge me five dollars every time I park my car near a trail. On some peaks I must pay fifteen dollars to go above 10,000 feet. Needless to say I can not stand being charged by mankind to see God. Such an imposition is immoral in the deepest sense. It is as if the police have come into my church and demanded that I pay for my sacrament. Perhaps the most essential part of my moral sense is my free access to those experiences that bring me the deepest kind of understanding (enlightenment, if you will). No doubt I endure other indignities to have these experiences but at least I could previously feel that once I left the trail that I was in my church all alone. I can no longer get that feeling so easily and, I?m afraid, the Forest Service has made my cathedrals into Disneyland. Yes, I feel that my connection to the cosmos is now blocked by a sign that demands money. This ?Fee Demonstration Program? is still not a law in the technical sense and I have written impassioned letters to my representatives and the president telling them how much the idea offends me. Little good it will do me because every six months since 1998 the Forest Service has gone to Congress with the numbers of permits sold and used them as ?evidence? that the public is willing to pay (even though you can be cited and fined for not paying). I feel I have no recourse and that I am a slave in some sense to a system that I believe is irresponsible and immoral. When I think of it (not all the time of course) I feel extremely angry and trapped. I don?t know of any other wilderness area where you are charged simply for access. In many places you can be charged for mandatory rescue insurance, transportation, etc. but these are charges for goods and services that cost money to produce. There aren?t that many wild places left where people can go to experience things that humankind had no part in producing and I believe that even if you never go to these places that there is something about the mere existence of wild places that maintains intact some part of the original animal nature of humankind. What could be less natural than being forced under rule of law to pay to walk in the woods? What if Thoreau was charged fifty cents to watch the ants at Walden? If he were he could not have been confronting the ?essential facts of life? but would rather have been confronting the seedy greediness of humankind. I can?t imagine (for myself) how I could be made to feel less free than to be charged to sit up on a mountain wondering how long its been there and what forces willed it to be there. I can?t give you five smelly one dollar bills to breathe the incense of the firs after a rain and to sit on that snowy ridge wondering if that wind is a caress or a thrashing. Not less could I give you money for the trees and mountains that are not yours or mine because to do so would be to admit that there is no place beyond your reach. And that, is a lie I will not be enslaved to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Dude, that's beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonb Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 The $5 fee is waved if you are in the woods for religious observance. We were sitting around the hot tub the other day and decided we should form the "Church of the Alpine God". That way we could define out door activities as religious observations (plus we could probably buy a cabin near Baker and write it off as a tax deduction). We got the "Pay now or get a citation" letter a few months ago and I was considering challanging it on religious grounds, but after typing up a couple paragraphs I really didn't have much to back up my arguments. Plus as the head of a religion I could command hoards of nubile cultish followers. Let us pray: Lord/goddess/supreme beingplease bless our activitiesLook kindly upon our voyagesand keep us from injury Off Belay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not_a_climber Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I don't like the fees either. The theory is that you should pay to pray er I mean play. Philosophical question: Are play, adventure, and recreation equivalent. Which of the 3 should one have to pay for? Why call it a "demonstration" fee when it's a shoe-in to start with? How much does it cost to enforce the whole thing--show us the accounting please--detailed, and on a website for public viewing! Don't places like Mt. St. Helens bring in the most cash--why extend it to some of the remote places that people like us access? Put a note in your windshield like I do. "Taxes yes, Fees no". Don't let our public "servants" shoe in another a la carte tax. We pay enough on April 15 already. http://www.freeourparks.org/http://www.wildwilderness.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Thanks for sharing! Did you send this off to someone? We are fortunate here in MN where we dont have any fees yet (*knock on wood*) for the boundary waters or other National Forests. You are required to get a free permit, tho. We pay 20 bucks or so for an annual state park permit in order to park in their lots (or $5/day?). But its easy enough if you want to park on the side of a road somewhere instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamaker Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 >>The $5 fee is waved if you are in the woods for religious observance. << Sorry, a federal judge in OR rulled against this argument last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copperhead Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 All, This free permit system is exactly the same technique that was used out here in WA before the fee based permits were required. With free permits, the land managers are better able to track the usage and feasability of instituting a fee system in a certain area. Even though we are now recquired to have a $25 parking permit for our cars, it is only enforced at the popular trailheads and parking areas. These popular locations all have several signs announcing that a permit is required (wonder where the money came from for those?). Go to more remote areas, and there are no signs and spotty enforcement. quote: Originally posted by carolyn: We are fortunate here in MN where we dont have any fees yet (*knock on wood*) for the boundary waters or other National Forests. You are required to get a free permit, tho. We pay 20 bucks or so for an annual state park permit in order to park in their lots (or $5/day?). But its easy enough if you want to park on the side of a road somewhere instead.[/QB] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 You know, most of the fees are not really user fees at all. They are parking fees. If you don't leave a car at the trailhead, there is no way for them to collect the fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by danielpatricksmith: You know, most of the fees are not really user fees at all. They are parking fees. If you don't leave a car at the trailhead, there is no way for them to collect the fee. Add an extra half hour or so to your walking time. It is my understanding that if you park a quarter mile or more from the trailhead, the pass isn't required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenolith Posted February 14, 2002 Author Share Posted February 14, 2002 Its true that if you park >1/4 mile from a sign you can't be cited, but they solve that by signing every parkable space near a TH. There is a lot of case law on this subject now and it provides precedent for judges to rule against any exception that requires the LEO to prove that you were recreating. The judge jhamaker refers to said that he didn't think the intent of the language was to require the LEO to establish proof (Although in that same case "Govt. vs Siart the LEO used a dash-mounted video camera to record the lic. plate and the ensuing interaction between the officer, driver and her passenger who were returning to their car). That means that the exceptions (eg. work, religious observance, etc) are placed under the discretionary powers of the LEOs themselves. I don't know of any place in my local mtns where I can find a parking place that is not signed. If I need to ride a bike to the NF I would need 3 days to do a one day climb. Moreover, I can see the day coming when every entrance to a NF has a toll gate like NPs do. So far that won't work since you can't be charged for driving thru a NF on a state hwy... Finding ways to avoid paying the $5 is beside the point of the essay though. At some places the FS is just trying to make a buck when they do NOTHING to the trail or TH. I'm happy to donate for solar toilets or the like, but I want to have a choice. At Pete's Pile, a tiny crag near Mt Hood the FS put a Fee Demo sign near the TH when the trail was made by foot traffic, protected from erosion by volunteers from Hood River and the crag itself is signed with hand-carved signs which warn where the chossy rock is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imorris Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 On a mountain rescue mission last year, we returned to our cars to find not only trail park pass violation tickets on our dashes, but tickets on the dashes of the friends and father of the (still) lost subject. Perhaps a misunderstanding, but it left a real bad taste in the mouth. I'm probably preaching to the converted, but the trail park pass system is simply unacceptable. Rec. fees are the gateway to commercial interests from the likes of Disney (I'm not kidding) and others in bed with USFS in DC, and are supported by the boaters/atv/etc crowd (and why not, it funds their boat ramps and they don't hang out at wilderness trailheads). Unfortunately, the only way to voice opposition is to directly confront: get cited on purpose and take it to court. Many of us are not willing to do this, but it appears to be the only way to make some noise. Parking away from the TH doesn't register on their radar. -Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 The best way to fight it is to volunteer two days to WTA in trail maintenance. I disagree with the passes completely, but seeing that if you don't pay they turn it over to a credit agency , I don't think it's worth losing your good credit rating. Once it's been turned over to the credit agency, it's a done deal as far as the NFS is concerned and you're left holding the bill with no one to listen to your protest. If everyone refused to pay for the pass, and worked two days on trails, everyone comes out a winner, and the bureaucrats come up with fuck-all $. It's not a question of being able to afford the $30, I can no prob. It's just better to go work right on the trails and eliminate one level of bureaucracy in the process. That's what I'm doing this year at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I heard they can't really ticket you unless they catch you in person. So its not a real ticket unless they catch you returning to your car at the trailhead. Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 quote: Originally posted by specialed: I heard they can't really ticket you unless they catch you in person. So its not a real ticket unless they catch you returning to your car at the trailhead. Is that true? i dont know but for the most part the deforrest rangers are fat and lazy so they are specially desinged to be bitter toward athletic young people with motivation to escape the tv....plus who other then someone fat and bitter person would want to sit in a parking lot busting people for having life enhancing fun???? long live nick space!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not_a_climber Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 payaso's plan doesn't sound bad if everyone does it. It bugs me that they say there is alot of support for the fees. It seems like in most of the places I have parked (WA cascades, Snow Lake, Ingalls Lake trailheads...) only about half the cars have the pass displayed. I still suspect that 80% of the money is coming from 3 or 4 main attractions like Mt. St. Helens. I also suspect that if the full program ever makes it through, the enforcement side of it is going to be turned up a notch with heftier fines and closer monitoring. If the people in this great democratic country really support, I submit that it should be submitted to our approval via the ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllYouCanEat Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Write your congressman. Seriously. Private business should be separated from the government just as religion is. Large interest groups with a lot of power agree with the demo fee. The Northwest's wilderness lands are beautiful and shouldn't be exploited by greedy texans. Hrrrrrgh... If it was up to private business to make the decisions, the world would just be one big parking lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenolith Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 quote: Originally posted by specialed: I heard they can't really ticket you unless they catch you in person. So its not a real ticket unless they catch you returning to your car at the trailhead. Is that true? No, that's not true. Here's why, "There is a lot of case law on this subject now and it provides precedent for judges to rule against any exception that requires the LEO to prove that you were recreating. The judge jhamaker refers to said that **he didn't think the intent of the language was to require the LEO to establish proof** (Although in that same case "Govt. vs Siart" the LEO used a dash-mounted video camera to record the lic. plate and the ensuing interaction between the officer, driver and her passenger who were returning to their car). That means that the exceptions (eg. work, religious observance, etc) are placed under the discretionary powers of the LEOs themselves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenolith Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 A bit more background that will horrify anyone with the patience to read it. I have sources for all of the claims I am about to make. Just ask. The Fee Demo program is being implemented jointly by the USFS and the American Recreation Coalition (ARC). Who are they? RV clubs, RV dealers, boating clubs and dealers, etc, here's a partial list; Bass ProShopsBerkley Inc.BOAT/U.S.Brunswick CorporationThe Coleman CompanyDelaware North CompaniesThe Dial CorpFleetwood EnterprisesForever Living ProductsGaylord Entertainment CompanyHarley-Davidson, Inc.Huffy CorporationJohnson Worldwide AssociatesKOAL.L. BeanOutboard Marine CorporationOutdoor Resorts of AmericaREI<-write and tell them they suck!!Snowbird Ski and Summer ResortTimes Mirror MagazinesWalt Disney Attractions What are these corporations interests in public lands? The ARC and USFS have signed a contract that, in part, establishes the "Challenger Cost-Share Agreement", which is "a non-profit organization that strives to catalyze public/private partnerships to enhance and protect outdoor recreational opportunities and the resources upon which such experiences take place." I don't see climbers represented on that list, but we are paying a disproportionate amount of the cost for this program. We tend to recreate in Wilderness Areas but these corporations that are helping the USFS to charge us to enter these WAs are going to want something eventually. If they are paying the USFS's bills they are going to get it. Congress is being asked to consider rewriting the endangered species act and the wilderness act has no more authority that the ESA. That, partially, is why Wild Wilderness calls the Fee Demo program the thin edge of the wedge that is driving the Disenyfication of public lands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I already made this point in another discussion, but I believe it is appropriate here too. The Fee Demonstration Program is completely bogus, and I fully believe the story about the ARC. Also, I think it is outrageous to make us pay to play on public lands -- especially when our tax dollars go to subsidizing commercial exploitation of those lands. But I also believe that the local National Forest is strapped for cash, and the District rangers see the fee demo program as a source of funding for things like trail maintenance. I fully support anybody who is willing to spend their own time and money to protest the fee demonstration program. But at the same time, let's not declare war on and make enemies of those that control and maintain access to Snow Creek Wall, the Enchantments, or much of the North Cascades. I'm not sure what the best course of action is, but we need to bear in mind that what we are ultimately seeking is political change that includes a reorganization of funding priorities and also an improvement in the relationship between climbers and land managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Oh, the ARC thing is real, and known about for a good while. As far as the idea of volunteering to avoid the fee, well, I think it's a great idea, and by all means I'm in favor of volunteer TM and the WTA, the difficult thing to accept is the notion that volunteer TM makes it harder for the FS to get the funding they need. I guess I don't see any volunteer window washers in the Federal Building down there on Second, maybe that's because they can't get enthusiasts to do that work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Well our fearless leader just declared that we all oughta volunteer at least 2 years of our life to something, I guess as a feelgood wartime support the troops kind of crap. Allison, I guess if I'm willing to break trail for the WTA to selfishly obtain a permit to leave my wheels at land that's already mine to begin with, I should at least be willing to wash some windows downtown at second! I'll bring some windex! We might be onto something here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Good idea. Then some big man in the IRS is going to look out his window and thnk, you know, tose climbers are OK. there should be a tax excemtion on climbing equipment. We all win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not_a_climber Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Snork! I can see it now. "Stay at our Hotel Pyramidoexelsior and get a 20% discount on your National Window Washing Pass*. The Pyrimado is conveniently located within 2 blocks of the challenging north face of the Federal Building, one of the nations most pristine window washing locations and is a gathering spot for sport washers the world over. Buckets and rags provided**. Free continental breakfast provided. Off season rates applicable." *free pass contingent on 4-day, 5-night stay at the Pyramido, and the purchase of one DayEvent excursion. **bring your own rope [ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: not a climber ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Maybe we need to become mineral prospectors rather than climbers. Then we won't have to pay for the parking passes, since it'll be work and not play. And of course, where are you gonna prospect besides in the mountains. The Cascades are covered with mining claims; I bet half the mountains are named for claims or miners (Johannesburg, Ruby, Eldorado, Monte Cristo come to mind.) The beauty of this is that almost no prospectors make money prospecting, so they wouldn't expect you to actually have an income from the "job." Plus, you'd be able to write off your climbing gear from your taxes! For a few years, anyhow. This wouldn't work in the North Cascades or Rainer National Parks, probably, but it'd work in NF land. I've e-mailed my brother, who's a geologist for a gold mining company in Nevada, to find out whether this scam would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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