allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 sphincter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 iain said: Sphinx, are you actually on crack? bet you'd like to smell his crack, would'nt ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 iain said: sphinx would you rather have crack dealers or bikers periodically biking in an empty bus lane in your neighborhood? Â btw are you actually on crack? Â You're comparing apples and oranges. Of course we don't want crack dealers on every street. But do you really think that keeping police from ticketing bikes is going to reduce drug dealing? It's a ridiculous argument. One more caveat: if they aren't going to ticked bicyclists to focus on crack dealers instead, they shouldn't ticket cars either. Why are bikes special? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: ...I'll say it again: (Sphinxter) you're an idiot Bear-Bird, you are being redundant. The fact has been established already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Sphinx said: Why are bikers special? ah, because they wear those cute tight speedo pants or sumpin? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) I hesitate to continue since I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious, but... Â How many people are biking out there in comparison to cars? How many people have been killed by being run over by a bike? How often do you see traffic congestion where it is stop and go bike traffic? per capita, how likely is a car-related death versus other means? Bikes and cars are not the same. If bikes are on the street, they need to obey the traffic laws if they want to act like a car, as most car drivers are totally oblivious to their presence. However, IF YOU ACTUALLY COMMUTED you would know that there are certain exceptions THAT WOULD BE REASONABLE to make for bikers WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE and make the community A MORE LIVABLE PLACE. Â And yes, police distracted on stupid bike infractions THAT CAUSE NO HARM TO ANYONE means less police attention to more important crime around the city. Edited August 22, 2003 by iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 You fuckers shut up, Sphincter is making perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 why am I being ignored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 catbirdseat said: Ursa_Eagle said: ...I'll say it again: (Sphinxter) you're an idiot Bear-Bird, you are being redundant. The fact has been established already. Â Catbirdseat, I'd agree that much of our collective spray is idiotic. However, I'm unsure how my arguments in this thread idiotic or ignorant. Saying "you're stupid" in response to a valid argument is a childish argument that serves no purpose other than making however made the statement appear foolish. Â I think most of you are blinded by your overwhelming desire to be PC. Try to think logically, if only for a few seconds. Â My argument still stands. Hold bicyclists accountable for their actions. If they are allowed to share the road with cars, they should follow the same laws, and they should get punished just as car drivers are when they break those laws. I fail to understand how this is idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 trask said: why am I being ignored? Â You just haven't yet come up with the inappropriately creative response yet. We have faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) they should also have to get a license and have proof of insurance. Edited August 22, 2003 by trask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 iain said: I hesitate to continue since I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious, but... Â How many people are biking out there in comparison to cars? How many people have been killed by being run over by a bike? How often do you see traffic congestion where it is stop and go bike traffic? per capita, how likely is a car-related death versus other means? Bikes and cars are not the same. If bikes are on the street, they need to obey the traffic laws if they want to act like a car, as most car drivers are totally oblivious to their presence. However, IF YOU ACTUALLY COMMUTED you would know that there are certain exceptions THAT WOULD BE REASONABLE to make for bikers WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE and make the community A MORE LIVABLE PLACE. Â And yes, police distracted on stupid bike infractions THAT CAUSE NO HARM TO ANYONE means less police attention to more important crime around the city. Â Bikes running red lights or stop signs might not be much of a danger to anybody EXCEPT THEMSELVES. Yes, it's difficult to run someone over with a bike. BUT if a car hits a bike, the driver is always to blame, no matter what the rider of the bike did. Again, why the double standard? If someone is being dangerous, to others or to themselves, they should be held accountable. Period. Â Oh, and what exceptions are you talking about? Running red lights and stopsigns? Cutting off motorists? How do these actions not cause harm to anyone? What if a car is forced to swerve due to a bike running a stop sign, and hits another car, or pedestrian? Did the bike really cause no harm by disobeying the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I think the legislation will answer any questions you might have, as you don't seem to trust anything I say: House Bill 2768 Â It flew through the house already, in the Senate at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Sounds reasonable. But you still won't be able to run stop signs: Â "Creates offense of improper entry into intersection where traffic is controlled by stop sign. Punishes by maximum fine of { - $75 - } { + $300 + }. Creates offense of improper entry into intersection where traffic is controlled by flashing red signal. Punishes by maximum fine of { - $75 - } { + $300 + }." Â Besides, all is good and fine if you obey the law. Debating whether the laws should be changed is an entirely different argument. However, I reiterate that people should stay in accordance with the laws even if they disagree with them. If enough people disagree, the law will change, as you just demonstrated. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Besides, this is Oregon legislature, and everybody knows that Oregon is a bike-loving hippie-embracing shithole. Â (yes, catbirdseat, I'll admit, this post is idiotic. But the rest of them in this thread aren't.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 (edited) Yo Ken HE IS AND IDIOT, IGNORE HIM. I was thinking of writing a nasty letter, but said fuck it, it would just inflate his ego. Edited August 22, 2003 by Dave_Schuldt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykilo Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Is the driver really responsible no matter what? Oregon hydro . Oregon choss-fest volcanos Oregon, Portland most bike-friendly city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Having worked as a bike messenger and as a bike commuter for 20 years here's my observations: Â 1) There are limited idiots in cars who ignore biker safety. Â 2) Thre are limited idiot bikers who ignore all safety. Â 3) If you stick to the rules of the road drivers get pissed at you. If you bend the rules drivers get pissed at you. Â 4) If you're generally courterous and safe no one cares if you bend some of the rules. Â 5) It's the fat people in cars who get pissed the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Jim said: Having worked as a bike messenger and as a bike commuter for 20 years here's my observations: Â 1) There are limited idiots in cars who ignore biker safety. Â 2) Thre are limited idiot bikers who ignore all safety. Â 3) If you stick to the rules of the road drivers get pissed at you. If you bend the rules drivers get pissed at you. Â 4) If you're generally courterous and safe no one cares if you bend some of the rules. Â 5) It's the fat people in cars who get pissed the most. Â AFTER ALOMOST 20 YEARS OF RIDING, 3 OF THEM AS A MESENGER IN SEATTLE, THESE OBSERVATIONS ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykilo Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Jim-I hear you on the drivers getting pissed at cyclists who strictly follow the rules of the road. I think the general concept is anger at anyone who retards their progress, no matter how slightly. Â I always love observing people commuting in their luxury vehicles, in a traffic jam, with a big scowl. What's the point? Hurry up and get pissed, and run over a cyclist while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Sphinx said: Ursa_Eagle said: what do you want the bikers to do? Not take a left on red, and sit at a stoplight for 10 minutes because the bike isn't big enough to trip the sensor? I agree that there are certain rules that bike should follow (and some bikers don't), but there are others that just don't apply. Â So you're saying that it's OK for bikes to run red lights, and then when they get hit by a car, it's the driver's fault cause bikers can't be blamed? Â Any cyclist will tell you it's the cyclist's fault. Even if they were the one hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Dave_Schuldt said: Yo Ken HE IS AND IDIOT, IGNORE HIM. I was thinking of writing a nasty letter, but said fuck it, it would just inflate his ego. No, you're too stupid to write a coherent thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Jim said: Having worked as a bike messenger and as a bike commuter for 20 years here's my observations: Â 1) There are limited idiots in cars who ignore biker safety. Â 2) Thre are limited idiot bikers who ignore all safety. Â 3) If you stick to the rules of the road drivers get pissed at you. If you bend the rules drivers get pissed at you. Â 4) If you're generally courterous and safe no one cares if you bend some of the rules. Â 5) It's the fat people in cars who get pissed the most. Â Well, phew, good thing that Ken Schram was talking about ALL BIKES ON THE ROAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykilo Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 There you go trask, maybe a personal insult will get you a response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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