johnny Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I have ben getting on the rock quite a bit lately since getting settled out here in NC and meeting some people from the gear shop I am working in right now and I seem to have found a new hurdle to overcome. I can't fall!! No, I have not found a solution to gravity, I am just having a serious problem with falling on traditional gear. I either don't lead difficult pitches or can't just commit to the moves when I am above what looks like a good placement. Maybe I have been brainwashed by all the bolted stuff I did in Washington? I feel way better going for it when above a bolt. Anybody out there have any little mindf&%ks that have worked for them? There is such a strong trad ethic out here in NC (which I really like) that all the super cool lines require gear. Maybe I am just a wanker afterall, or maybe I need to start being a wake and bake again like years past,............ I thought my autosig was funny, but it was only the beginning of a small obsession!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Put in mileage. Don't worry about it, just keep climbing as much as possible. You'll become more and more comfortable with the feel of using trad gear for pro, and it will get easier and more comfortable. Through repetition you can achieve focus. But I always tell myself when climbing above gear: that people do this all the time, its safe, and nothing to get sketched about. If you need some extra motivation though watch "Hard Grit" and see british dudes taking huge whippers onto hand-placed pins, #1 RP's and the like. It makes fat cam placements feel super bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Liquid courage (drink at the crags) Stoner Sessions Bring hot chicks on hard routes Quit being a wimp What do you think the gear is for? (keep repeating this in your brain) Climb with people that take zingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Fall. Thats my advice. Or, if you can find 2 belayers, set up a top rope with a loose belay. They with the second rope belayed from below, "lead" a pitch with variable quality placements and fall on each one. The top rope is there as a backup. You can start by placing a peice, down climbing a few feet below it and taking a little fall. Then fall from a position level with the piece. Then above it. You will quickly figure out a "good" vs. "questionable" placement. The only downside is the wear on your gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Anderson Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 So long as you know in your head that the gear is fine, but you are still all clustered up, its generally just an irrational, subconscious fear. The best way past it is to increase your time outside and make being above gear the friendliest place to be. As far as little exercises I use to get past the irrational fear? I do these: I start up a pitch with good gear and jump. Make sure your partner knows your purpose, so he won't let you weenie out of it. Jump multiple times over different pieces of gear. If you want to progress beyond that, have your partner start calling out where he thinks you should fall. If you protect so that the falls are always ok, you'll start accepting that doing it anywhere (so long as the gear is adequate) is ok. The theory is that the more times it happens without a bad result, the less it will seem like a big deal. By having your partner call out when, you give up a bit more control and start experiencing that giving up that control (so long as you are reasonably protected) is ok on both a conscious and unconcious level. The danger you're guarding against is climbing up to a spot where you are scared and refuse to fall, then repeating, thus making yourself more and more scared as time goes on. I also find that working a red point on a pitch that is quite hard for me and rather continuaous over a long period of time helps. You'll log a lot of air time, and as you get the moves dialed and are able to climb closer to your limit, you'll start getting that much further. This will give you positive reinforcement for pushing forward when your forearms don't feel like they will get you to the next piece, but they might. I find that the usual reason for me hanging is that I thing "I'm way to pumped, no way I can get to the next rest, I may as well hang here." This is a cop out that masks the "I'm afraid to fall even though I know on a rational level that the fall is ok." Once you get past that, you surprise yourself. Understand that going out and accepting top-ropes allows you to enjoy the candy (hard, fun moves on nice routes) without the work (the falls). If you stop allowing yourself to do that, your motivation to take the falls will likely increase. Good luck! I'm jealous of you being so close to the trad routes in the New! [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Matt Anderson ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithKSchultz Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Yeah. Fall. But make sure your pro is good first. How will you know? Fall on it and live? Hmmmmmm. The chicken or the egg? Or try doing some aiding with your trad gear. Every placement is tested right at your face. Get enough in that something's gotta hold. It isn't glamorous but your alternatives are much more dangerous. Until you are really f%#$ing good at placements your fear is justified. I've seen lots of placements pull. It's almost always a bummer. One guy I was belaying ran out past a piece then got gripped putting in the next one. It wasn't any good and by the time he thought it was, he was too pumped to climb. When he pealed, I reeled. His face ended up about three inches from the dirt. Bad placement. There is no substitute for repetition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Here's my advice: Don't fall. What do you think you're doing? Sport climbing? Fear of falling is good. Just because that gear you placed (while on toprope) then fell on (while on toprope) held, doesn't mean the next piece you place is gonna. What you should instead do is learn to realistically figure out when you can and can't do a move. Use all your toprope practice for that. Then when you get out above the gear focus on the fact that you CAN do the move. Do not focus on the possibility of falling. You're climbing. You shouldn't be practicing falling. You should be practicing ascending to the next placement. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Since you're in NC, if you really want to deal with this there are more options than you might think. Arno Ilgner, a longtime southeastern climber who's put up and repeated many desperate trad routes down there runs a course called "Warriors Way" or something like that. It's all about fear/falling/headspace etc. I've never taken any of his clinics, but have spoken with folks who have and all claimed very good results. Personally, I second the idea that clean aid is great for trad climbing. So is climbing alot of mileage. Being able to eyeball a placement and sink it quickly is a big part of the battle on sustained routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I agree with Chuck. Don't focus on falling, focus on ascending. But don't think your gears not gunna hold! If your climbing on trad gear, you should be skilled enough to know how good your gear is. The last thing you want in your head when your running it out is any doubts about that last piece. And when you're just starting to climb with trad gear, if the gear isn't bomber you should probably back off and save it for a day when you're more experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Listen to your alpine buddy ChucK - he's speaking the truth. A few practice falls in a very controlled situation might not hurt, but I've known people to get pretty banged up even in relatively short falls and a few successful falls will help your head, of course, but I'm not sure that more than a few "simulated falls" is worth the risk. I'd rather log my air time when I'm actually trying something that I want to lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Practice aid climbing. Bounce testing pieces will give you confidence in them, and show you whats bomber and what isn't. The only problem is that once you've gotten used to aiding you will want to carry three of each piece, and you'll wanna hang and pull on everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Matt Anderson: ....As far as little exercises I use to get past the irrational fear? I do these: I start up a pitch with good gear and jump. Make sure your partner knows your purpose, so he won't let you weenie out of it. Jump multiple times over different pieces of gear. If you want to progress beyond that, have your partner start calling out where he thinks you should fall. If you protect so that the falls are always ok, you'll start accepting that doing it anywhere (so long as the gear is adequate) is ok. No disrespect, Matt Anderson, but, as my dear ol' mom likes to say: HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 No, Bronco, I don't think he has....That seems to be the best thing to get over falling, fall in a somewhat controlled situation and get used to it. Yeah, some wear on your gear, but that will happen anyway and gear is replaceable. Your body after a fall on something (a TCU for instance) you have never really tested and did not place as good as you could have is not. This guy I am climbing with now keeps wanting to just go out and get "whipper practice" is not far from reality. Climb up, place gear on a route that accepts it easily and is near your limit, and fall. Maybe I make this all too complicated??? Will, I saw an ad for the "Warrior Way" thing a while ago. Sounds cool but a bit scammy, Guy has balls, large balls and is opinionated as well. Just add capitalism and he makes a living telling others what they could have gained from others just by asking. No slam to him, but isn't America great?????? P.S. someone mentioned the New River. I am going with some of the guys I met here in a couple weeks for 3-4 days. It looks awsome! Thats part of why I am working so hard right now, I want to kick ass when I get there!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 For me, it depends on the type of rock I'm on. If I'm climbing granite, it's plug and go- when on basalt or sandstone, I don't fall, the pro is "just in case". I'm actually more nervous about falling on bolted routes (my own mind f&*ck) on a crack, you can put in 2 or 3 pieces before heading through the crux with confidence- on a bolted route, you only have one one chance to keep your dome off the deck ( I know bolts rarely fail, but what if?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 When climbing, I make a point of not focusing on what is below my feet. I focus on the current placement, movement and the next placement. Like Chuck says, know what your limits are. Know when to back off, and know how to downclimb, Like specialed says, mileage will provide you with these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 yeah, I agree with not focusing so much on gear. I took me a while to get past always searching for your next piece- I find I climb better when I focus on the next move- If you're climbing a popular route, the placements will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_J Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Falling...yiks! That word is heard echoing through-out the Icicle Canyon during th Mountaineers outing more than I care to hear. But enough with that. I've actualy fallen more on bolts than on trad gear. Go figure? I don't know who put in the bolt and I trust that person more than I trust me. Huh!? Maybe a flaw in my character. But I do know this, I sew up cracks with gear when I am nervous about the next series of moves and I don't worry as much as I do on a bolted route about the fall cause I know it will be short. I always worry about the distance of the fall and not the fall itself, so trad is usually a short fall where as on a bolted route you are at the mercy of the bolt placer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 What freaks me out here, NC that is(this is another mindf%$ck)is that almost all the routes 5.9 and harder involve bulges, overhangs or scary roofs of some sort. Even the good 5.7-8 routes pull nastily intimidating roofs that may be straightforward(i.e. jugs) yet quite burly. Mindf$#K. It is safer to fall on overhanging bits than on slabs but the brain suffers!!! Speaking of the New: Anyone have any "must do's" in theGorge that I need to find???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 johnny, some mind massage will help. Climb with joy in your heart for the climbing, and the fear will be controllable. Avoid being overwhelmed with a fear of falling (failure) --easier said than done, but it can be done. Smiling helps a lot. Some aid-climbing will also let you better evaluate your gear placements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by johnny: What freaks me out here...is that almost all the routes 5.9 and harder involve bulges, overhangs or scary roofs of some sort. Even the good 5.7-8 routes pull nastily intimidating roofs that may be straightforward(i.e. jugs) yet quite burly. Welcome to the south buddy! As one old partner used to say "these routes might not be long, but they're long enough!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Don't you just hate this? Some guy asks a serious question. Then, when you take the time to give a serious answer he pops off and tells you you're wrong and corrects you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 That's good advice for getting a route done efficiently. Not good for worrying about making hard moves on self placed protection. You need more climb. If you challenge yourself enough you will eventually get the whipper you need. Reason why I say climb with someone that takes zingers is that you can see firsthand pro works great when properly placed in good rock. Ask Bronco about me taking some good zingers last summer at Index I think it did some good for his belief that pro works seeing it first hand. If it is granite and it is solid then if you know how place the pro right then the only thing you lack are balls. Mine shrink sometimes But I seem to take at least 4-5 good zingers each season. It's good on the steep rock too. Sounds like you got lots of steep rock nearby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 special ed is right. you ARE "the magnificent with a sensational style". the pizza isnt too bad for the middle of west virginia, and im not sure if they still have them, but when i used to go there a bunch the pizza joint had these placements describing appalachian slang. the placemats themselves are worth the trip. so if the climbing pysches you out too much, go to the store (there is only one), grab some booze, walk upstairs, sit on the porch and drink the booze and stare at the rocks talking about how "that route really isnt THAT bad", and make promises with your buddy that youll go back tomorrow and do it. wake up early enough in the campground to escape paying and so that the haze is still present (i.e. you will still think that last night's pact was a good idea), then go do the route. that is how things usually get done at seneca. and dont be too psyched out - the climbing back there really isnt too bad - its just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: .... Ask Bronco about me taking some good zingers last summer at Index I think it did some good for his belief that pro works seeing it first hand...... Thats my preferred method, watching someone else take repeated falls above my head. Looking forward to watching you this season from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Looking forward to climbing some offwidths this season with you. Multi Pitch too Gutjam baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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