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Juneriver

2002 - International Year of the Mountains

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quote:

Originally posted by To The Top:
Fairweather, "Know thy enemy or risk being overrun by them" quote from Sun Tsu (is it 4:20 yet?). Dude get a grip.TTT
[big Drink][chubit]

TTT,

that was "Matt" that (according to you) misquoted Sun Tsu. Not I.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fairweather:
Matt,

I don't see YOUR last name used here. The fact that I omitted my full name from this site and changed it is of no concern to you. (In fact it is because of hotheads like you that I did so) The fact that you have taken every opportunity to use my full name leads me to believe you somehow feel you are intimidating or "exposing" me. Trust me; you're not. None the less, I believe common courtesy and board etiquette should compel you to respect my choice of "Fairweather".

What's up Fairweather? Did somebody steal your mojo?

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quote:

Originally posted by W:
I don't do motorcycles.
[Moon]

But i bet you climb in an old pair of Tao's tongue.gif" border="0

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No I don't climb with shoes- it disrupts my ability to be one with the rock and degrooves my earth mofo.

I use my toenails for crampons. [geek]

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either that or more like Tucker Tech when the dumpster divin' hasn't been so fruitful... rolleyes.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by vegetablebelay:
Where's sexual cocoa puff? This discussion is right up his alley!
[sleep]

hey veggie- gimme a minute to shift gears. I'll set up a political version of WWF smackdown later to entertain you. i'll haul out the aggro W if you like. I aims to please!

[Wazzup]

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Brother Matt says something to this effect:"Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers..." Exactly! Terrorists ARE losers!

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:
Brother Matt says something to this effect:
"Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers..."
Exactly! Terrorists ARE losers!

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

And losers are just winners with a new attitude...

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Just a quick reminder guys: whenever you say you want to regulate something through government control what you are really saying is that you want to use the police power of the state (ie the gun!) to make people do something they do not want to do.

Also look at those areas with significant governmental control of economic resources and you’ll find the most destroyed environment. The textbook example is the old “Eastern Block” and the Soviet Union.

The Modern economy failed us? Look around large areas set aside for wilderness preservation, our ability to go on extended climbing trips, our ability to even get to the crags, our long and healthy lives? There are lots of examples of “pre-capitalist” societies screwing up their environment. The world is always full of uncertainty, unmet expectation, unforeseen problems, looming challenges but our modern economy is the best one to deal successfully with them.

PPFree Minds & Free Markets

NB – The CC.com posters here in NA have more in common with Ken Lay in terms of wealth than they do someone working in a sweatshop in Indonesia.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:
Brother Matt says something to this effect:
"Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers..."
Exactly! Terrorists ARE losers!

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ]

Shalom Brother Dwayner.

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And furthermore...some of you idealist whiners...the world ain't as simple as it is often presented. Throwing our wealth ("redistribution")has been unevenly successful. The Marshall Plan was successful, but numerous and very generous aid plans to many other countries are outright failures. Many countries do not have the social and political infrastructures to accept our "wealth". It often gets stolen, abused or neglected. I have spent years in such countries and concluded that sharing/throwing our resources at many places in the world is a total waste. I believe that population control should be the first step. Although I think the Pope is a pretty decent guy, if I were him, I would have a revelation that birth control is mandatory.

Some of the stat's and arguments noted above are often presented as evidence of the "first" world's abuse of resources, etc. I remember a few years ago, a college kid with whom I had the displeasure of spending 10 hours in a van on a ski trip. He spent at least half the time spouting out copious quantities of the usual statistics and liberal "solutions". After a while, me and a colleague looked at each other and shook our heads: this kid was wearing a $500 North Face Parka, $700 pair of new skis, etc., thousands of dollars of gear...like Jane Fonda, it's easy to be a liberal idealist when you got a few shekels in your pocket. So how about this, bleeding heart alpinists....take the first step and redistribute the wealth...start by selling your climbing gear and sending the cash to your favorite program. I'd have more respect for that then the usual noise-makin!

aloha, Dwayner

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quote:

Originally posted by Peter Puget:
Just a quick reminder guys: whenever you say you want to regulate something through government control what you are really saying is that you want to use the police power of the state (ie the gun!) to make people do something they do not want to do.

Also look at those areas with significant governmental control of economic resources and you’ll find the most destroyed environment. The textbook example is the old “Eastern Block” and the Soviet Union.

The Modern economy failed us? Look around large areas set aside for wilderness preservation, our ability to go on extended climbing trips, our ability to even get to the crags, our long and healthy lives? There are lots of examples of “pre-capitalist” societies screwing up their environment. The world is always full of uncertainty, unmet expectation, unforeseen problems, looming challenges but our modern economy is the best one to deal successfully with them.

PPFree Minds & Free Markets

NB – The CC.com posters here in NA have more in common with Ken Lay in terms of wealth than they do someone working in a sweatshop in Indonesia.

So where is the guy with a gun & Police Power in setting higher vehicle emissions standards, or in a carbon tax, Peter??? And who the hell is Ken Lay anyways, the guy who owns Frito Lay or what? I worked (sweated) with some ex-Indonesians at Arcteryx and we got on well... man you should hear the stories about Indonesian mountaineering clubs they make the Mounties look positively LAME!!!! grin.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by Peter Puget:
Just a quick reminder guys: whenever you say you want to regulate something through government control what you are really saying is that you want to use the police power of the state (ie the gun!) to make people do something they do not want to do.

You say that like it's a bad thing! grin.gif" border="0 It's a good thing if people are ignorant/selfish/greedy. [Moon]

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There is nothing better than blind people arguing about what they see. It all seems a little pointless doesn't it?

If I am to look out my door and decide "better or worse", then I must attest to the cesspool that I observe has appeared or rather replaced. Some things better and more things worse.

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Imagine the whole Earth as Muir Hut.... now lets say AlpineK and Ray are smoking a bowl when in comes Christine Boskoff and Scott'teryx together with a large German shepherd... someone is asked to extinguish the joint... panther chips in some snide observation about Lambone's name...meanwhile over in a corner Retrosaurus, Peter Puget and pope are preparing for fisticuffs over the discovery of a rappel placed bolt on the wall... Larson is placing 40 wands on the path to the outhouse...Rodchester denies any Cascade legends are present and Fairweather claims it is all the fault of the Liberals... jon and Erik delete the whole thing and timmy is too busy skiing the freshies to notice at which point Dwayner mentions how much he hates the term freshies... I was up in Lillooet and missed the whole thing but i still managed to spray about it the next day on the web... I was gonna make some Lambone joke too but I forgot... where is Foo Foo?? [Moon]cool.gif" border="0blush.gif" border="0shocked.gif" border="0[Wazzup][geek][sleep]grin.gif" border="0

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Dru ]

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Hey! Yesterday Pope and I exchanged pleasantries. Today Dwayner made a great coupel of posts to this thread. There is hope for this world. All you naysayers jump on in the waters fine!

PP

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I note that both Matt and Fairweather list ther actual e-mail addresses in their "profile" and that both addresses contain their real names. Both appear willing to take personal responsibility for stating what they believe.

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Hey, that "Lomborg book", the Skeptical Environmentalist, gets a 40 + page rebuttal as a Special Feature in the January "Scientific American" from scientists who actually know their stuff... Lomborg is a statistician who knows little science and apparently picks and chooses the facts he wants to find... most of his citations are to news articles in Time and the like, not to peer reviewed scientific publications.*

*The last time SA did this type of in-depth debunking was when The Bell Curve came out, same wishy washy pseudo-logical tobacco science there.

Ps lomborg was apparently never what you'd call "deep green" either despite him tooting his own horn that he was, if you read his statements in past publications.

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So I read that Lonberg article and while I know nothing of the guy, and I am not motivated enough to check up on his background or data I won't believe what he has to say without further proof.

I've read or heard of plenty of scientific studies that disagree with his findings. One experiment or study does not prove anything other than more study may be needed. In order to create what most people would call scientific facts you need to have multiple independent studys that come to the same conclusion.

Fairweather says this guy was a commited enviro until he started doing his reasearch. Well is he? What else has he written before he became anti-eco? More importantly who was paying for his reasearch?

There are just too many vested interests with big bucks behind them (petrochemical industry ect..) who would love to have, "science," that backs up the status quo. As Dru pointed out look at the tobacco industry. They paid for a bunch of people with scientific credentials to put out, "research," on how safe cigarettes were.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dru:
Hey, that "Lomborg book", the Skeptical Environmentalist, gets a 40 + page rebuttal as a Special Feature in the January "Scientific American..."

Thanks for the heads up. I get SA also. I'll have to read through it and see who makes the stronger case...

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