ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Any of you loco locals know why I can't find Serpentine in the guidebook? What is the peak name or what guide can I find some info on it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Are you referring to Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Isn't it in Nelson's first guide, "Selected Climbs in the Cascades, Vol. 1?" I don't have the book, but I'm 70% sure it is in there. Heck, it should be in the new brown Beckey Cascade Alpine Guide. I only have the old one, and it's not in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 ken4ord said: Any of you loco locals know why I can't find Serpentine... What is the peak name or what guide can I find some info on it in? Â Did you look under the couch cushions? Thats always where I found lost stuff. In fact, at MEC reading area, they sewed the cushions to the couch just to prevent us dirtbags from looking under them for lost stuff. Too bad cuz I found a Gri Gri there once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Dru said: ken4ord said: Any of you loco locals know why I can't find Serpentine... What is the peak name or what guide can I find some info on it in? Â Did you look under the couch cushions? Thats always where I found lost stuff. In fact, at MEC reading area, they sewed the cushions to the couch just to prevent us dirtbags from looking under them for lost stuff. Too bad cuz I found a Gri Gri there once. Â Well I probably won't be looking there since I don't hang on the couch too much. I'd rather be on some mountain or cliff face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Ken4ord- You were asking about classics last week. Serpentine is a good climb that is technically moderate, but I think it falls short of "classic" status. I haven't done it but by all accounts it has a few good pitches and lots of climbing that is not all that memorable, and the "arete" is not really a classic arete like many other routes. (I'm sure my peers will be quick to correct me on this.) Go for one of the ridges on Forbidden, or the upper N. ridge of Stuart, or NE buttress of Goode or... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 catbirdseat said: Are you referring to Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, perhaps? Â I think that's what it is thanks, cbs. Â Yep, just got done looking at the guide and it sounds like the route. Cheers, Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 mattp said: Ken4ord- You were asking about classics last week. Serpentine is a good climb that is technically moderate, but I think it falls short of "classic" status. I haven't done it but by all accounts it has a few good pitches and lots of climbing that is not all that memorable, and the "arete" is not really a classic arete like many other routes. (I'm sure my peers will be quick to correct me on this.) Go for one of the ridges on Forbidden, or the upper N. ridge of Stuart, or NE buttress of Goode or... Â Will do MattP, but when there is partner a route, I will be there. What else is right there that is cool. Cause Serpentine will be one of the two we are there. So speak or forever hold you peace. Â God damn I am punchy tonight, must be the wine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LhotseDreems Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 "Will do MattP, but when there is partner a route, I will be there. What else is right there that is cool. Cause Serpentine will be one of the two we are there. So speak or forever hold you peace." Â What!? I want some of whatever it is you're drinkin'! I think there was a question in there.. somewhere. Colchuck has some good routes. Then there always is Colchuck Balanced Rock. I'd recommend a Beckey guide or one of the Nelson books. Â I liked Serp Arete - a little chossy towards the top, but over all a satisfying route. Maybe not a "classic" but it was fun, nonetheless. Now Backbone looks like it maybe in the "classic" catergory - haven't been on it, but it's a gorgeous line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 LhotseDreems said: "Will do MattP, but when there is partner a route, I will be there. What else is right there that is cool. Cause Serpentine will be one of the two we are there. So speak or forever hold you peace." Â Â What!? I want some of whatever it is you're drinkin'! I think there was a question in there.. somewhere. Colchuck has some good routes. Then there always is Colchuck Balanced Rock. I'd recommend a Beckey guide or one of the Nelson books. Â I liked Serp Arete - a little chossy towards the top, but over all a satisfying route. Maybe not a "classic" but it was fun, nonetheless. Now Backbone looks like it maybe in the "classic" catergory - haven't been on it, but it's a gorgeous line. Â Red red wine. Â Dude I am new here and don't know shit, except for what I see. Haven't seen the area just going on heresay. Heard of Balanced rock and the pics look great in the becky guide, but to tell you the truth my head is swimming with images and routes, that I have know idea where they are in relation to what, just know I want to climb, climb, climb. You know what I'm saying. Â Ok it's time to crash out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 FWIW, I actually thought the climbing on serpentine arete was *betteR* than the upper NR of stuart minus the gendarme. there are basically 4 "tehcnical" pitches of serpintine which go at 5.6, .7, .8 and .8, and the rest can be simulclimbed, but it was fun and solid simulclimbing, and everything better than that crap gully on the upper NR of stuart. Just my 2 cents. I had a great time on that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Serpintine has 4 good pitches. The rest are medeocre. What level do you want to climb at? If Serpintine is at your highest level, Connect the routes up the center face from the lowest part of the toe to the ledges on the fin (look in the brown Becky guide). That goes at 5.7 with lots of clean pitches (20+). If Serpintine is right in the middle of your range, do the Fin. Routes criss cross all over that face, but most people do the Backbone Ridge route when they do the fin (5.9). After that, do the Balance rock route (5.10-5.11). Or push on and do the South Face of Prussik (5.9). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Thanks Bug, Backbone with the Fin looks really cool. Definitely within my level. 5.9 6 inch crack sounds like a grunt fest though. Probably going to stick with Serpentine, 20 pitches is a lot to pull off with a new partner in unfamilar terrain, though it looks like there are opportunities to bail onto easier once you get going. What is your opinion, do those large sloping ledge systems in the picture make it possible to bail from Backbone somewhat easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Dude from the East: Serpentine is a good route. Location is nice. Get it before they tear out the bridges on July 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 also check out the n or ne buttress of colchuck peak. it is just to the right of the colchuck glacier route. Â i think it is 12-15 pitches at 5.9 with two or 3 sections of that. Â i dont think bailing off of serpatine arete is that easy/recommeneded. but i am sure doable. Â serpatine arete is the least of the classics up there. Â also i think offwhite mentioned something about the nw face of dragontail. it looks really cool with a bunch of spider web crack systems. it starts about 3/4 to the top of asgard. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 erik said: also i think offwhite mentioned something about the nw face of dragontail. it looks really cool with a bunch of spider web crack systems. it starts about 3/4 to the top of asgard. Â Â NE Buttress, starts probably a third of the way up Asgard. That whole side of the peak is an interesting assemblage of cracks and pretty good rock. We did the usual alpine line-of-least-resistance thing, but there were a number of good looking lines that had me thinking if it were close enough to the road to be a day crag, ala SCW, it would be packed with good routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 YEAH THATS WHAT I MEANT THE NE BUTTRESS! Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Ken- Don't worry about the 6" crack on Backbone -- the rock is no more than 60 degrees at that point, the crack is in a corner so you can stem off to the side, and the pitch is really not all that hard. I HAVE done Backbone, and we climbed "the fin." I thought it was a good but not great climb. All these climbs are worthwhile, it's just that in my view there are better routes around than these two popular "arete's" on Dragontail. They are both long and contain a lot of scrambling in addition to several good pitches. Although both are called "arete's," neither is on a classic knife-edged arete. Neither has a really classic top-out, and although Dragontail is one of the highest peaks in the range and has great views, it is not a classic pointy mountain summit. Â It is a different thing, of course (shorter and steeper), but I think the S. Face of Prussik is ten times more classic as a rock climb. Also, I'm not sure where JoshK is coming from when he says the N. Ridge is not as much fun as Serpentine -- that upper gully he complains about is nasty for something like 40 feet and then you exit right to begin scrambling on terrain that I am sure is no more nasty than some of what you would encounter on the Serpentine and certainly no more nasty than the loose rock you will encounter on 90% of the alpine rock climbs in this world. Before that, the upper N. Ridge has nearly a thousand feet of climbing that is clean, solid, and way up high in the sky with better exposure and closer views of glaciers than anything you find on Dragontail. Also, the summit of Stuart is in my view a cooler place than Dragontail, though part of what makes me say this is the fact that it is a little more difficult to get down from Stuart. To many climbers this factor dictates a checkmark in the minus column rather than the plus column, but I like the challenges of mountain climbing (and descent) as much as I like rock climbing. Anyway, they are all good and have fun. Â You are definitely on the right track when you say you're going to go for whatever climb your partner will agree to tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Don't listen to Matt; he bolts EVERYTHING. Â Just kidding, Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Yeah, the North Ridge is a sport-climb since somebody added those bolts at the rappel station. I was thinking that now that the floodgates are open, I'd go bolt the entire thing. Who wants to run it out on those unprotected hand-traversses that are at least 5.0??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 mattp said: Ken- Also, I'm not sure where JoshK is coming from when he says the N. Ridge is not as much fun as Serpentine -- that upper gully he complains about is nasty for something like 40 feet and then you exit right to begin scrambling on terrain that I am sure is no more nasty than some of what you would encounter on the Serpentine and certainly no more nasty than the loose rock you will encounter on 90% of the alpine rock climbs in this world. Before that, the upper N. Ridge has nearly a thousand feet of climbing that is clean, solid, and way up high in the sky with better exposure and closer views of glaciers than anything you find on Dragontail... Â I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I clearly said it was just my opinion. I found the climbing on the NR, while very exposed and cool, not all that difficult. I thgouht the 4 pitches on serpintine were more interesting and if you stay on the ridge the rest of the "scrambling" quite enjoyable. I dunno, maybe it was that we had the whole of dragontail to ourselvs and had to deal with 3 other teams on the NR, but that's just how I remember it. THey are both great routes, but I found serpintine very enjoyable despite the fact that everybody likes to bash on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Ken- Don't worry about the 6" crack on Backbone -- the rock is no more than 60 degrees at that point, the crack is in a corner so you can stem off to the side, and the pitch is really not all that hard. I HAVE done Backbone, and we climbed "the fin." I thought it was a good but not great climb. All these climbs are worthwhile, it's just that in my view there are better routes around than these two popular "arete's" on Dragontail. They are both long and contain a lot of scrambling in addition to several good pitches. Although both are called "arete's," neither is on a classic knife-edged arete. Neither has a really classic top-out, and although Dragontail is one of the highest peaks in the range and has great views, it is not a classic pointy mountain summit. Â I have to agree with Matt's comments. Joshk is a dork. Â The Serpentine is worth doing once. There is no way it's better than Mt Stuart's N Ridge or even a comparison for some of those cool hand traverses and rock quality. Â There's a lot of rock around them Cascades. I recommend Forbidden Peak too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 JoshK said: I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Â Like he said: I'm not allowed to have an opinion? (I thought we were just wasting time at work.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 ken4ord said: Thanks Bug, Backbone with the Fin looks really cool. Definitely within my level. 5.9 6 inch crack sounds like a grunt fest though. Probably going to stick with Serpentine, 20 pitches is a lot to pull off with a new partner in unfamilar terrain, though it looks like there are opportunities to bail onto easier once you get going. What is your opinion, do those large sloping ledge systems in the picture make it possible to bail from Backbone somewhat easily? You can find your own way all over that mountain. No telling what you will find tho. Serpentine is worth doing once. But I would do the toe route that I mentioned first. Especially if you two are up for the fin instead of the ledges below the fin. Either way is pretty cool. At that level on Serpentine, you've been doing simul-climbing for several pitches and have a few more to go - all through slabby and sloping ledges with loose blocks abounding. N ridge of Stuart is also better (in my opinion). Again, if you are leading 5.9 comfortably, do the gendarme. It is really cool. The gully is OK but just more alpine 3rd & 4th class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollyclimber Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I think Matt and I agree on the Backbone's qualities. I did the Backbone last year and I thought it was ok, but not at all that great. I thought the N Ridge of Stewart was many times better. I am not always a fan of ridge climbs though, so it has to be a great one for me to really like it. The OW on Backbone was not hard, but it doesn't really protect easily. I can't really imagine doing Serpentine if you are capable of doing Backbone. I am sure Serpentine is nice for just getting a lot of pitches in (would not think it is 20! though) but even Backbone had a lot of 5.0 and a lot of walking and Serpentine is a couple of notches easier, from what I understand. Â hgb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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