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Bodynazi

WTF? roped climbers on Rainier w/o pro...

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Greetings people. I just did Liberty Ridge last weekend. My partner Nick and myself were the only people on the route that were unroped. I cannot believe all the novice parties that rope up, don't place pro, and think that is OK. Do these people really think that they can arrest a falling climber? Right, just like that party on Hood last year benefited by being roped up - whoops, they actually died because of that... Every experienced climber I talked to said how they cannot believe how many dolt people are roped up climbing w/ zero pro between people – yet EVERYONE (except us) on the mountain was roped up for the actual climbing (of course we were roped up on the glaciers).

 

Question: Are there really that many stupid people climbing Rainier – and Liberty Ridge at that?

 

Being roped up w/ zero pro takes a very confident experienced climber to be able to arrest the fall of their partner. Groups of up to 6 $hitheads with tons of slack in the line is an accident waiting to happen. “I’ll belay you up” as the idiot simply pulls the rope in hand over hand with no belay device. I felt like I was at an easy sport climbing area with fools abound – not knowing how to belay, clip ropes, equalize anchors, etc.

 

Are the guides that stupid? Is there a basic mountaineering book that says to do that? I have read accounts of climbers on the trade route on Denali doing the same thing so it’s hardly unique to Rainier.

 

Someone please explain to me what in god’s name they are thinking when they are climbing roped up – how that provides anything other than a totally false sense of security and is actually a death sentence for all involved if one should slip.

 

So… if you’re a beginning climber and the Fred that’s “in charge” of your ascent up Rainier says to rope up for the actual climbing with out at least a running belay with pro placed between climbers, tell him (or her) that they are f-ing idiots and to have them explain it to you.

 

Sorry for the rant – I was just amazed………………….. madgo_ron.gifmadgo_ron.gifmadgo_ron.gifmadgo_ron.gif

 

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you need a qualifier... cause yes people can stop a fall without pro, but not on key sections of liberty ridge... i did this once when my ropemate fell into a crevasse. I agree though, steeper stuff you need intermediate protection. There was a thread on this a while back tho...

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The idea is that when one person slips, the others can arrest and hold him. Tends not to work well, though..

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Bodynazi,

 

Maybe you should just worry about you and yours when on the mountain. Not to slam you on your first post, but you come across as holier-than-thou big time. I could ask about your qualifications to attempt such a route, such as # previous climbs of Rainier, routes, etc, but that just wouldn't be right...now would it?

 

There are always going to be climbers with wildly varying degrees of experience on a more popular mountain. And yes, someone might rain on your parade someday. That's just part of the deal on a "party mountain" like Rainier. Get a grip stud.

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There are old climbers and bold climbers, but not many old bold climbers. You my friend, are too tough or ignorant to rope up. Which is it chestbeater?

Big deal, you climbed liberty ridge, well just for your information hundreds of people attempt that route every year. So what's your point?

Jose

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to answer your question bodynazi yes, yes, yes, people are that stupid. just look at the answers you received. fucking morons like fairweather or joe retard (name says all) don't have a grasp of the idea.

last year after the hood accident i said that the party who fell with a rope stretched across a slope killed people. everyone was on my case, that it is harsh to say such thing- there is never good time to say stuff like that. the reality is that they killed and injured people and caused severe damage. i really don't give a flying fuck if people kill themselves. but it is a different story if they kill someone because of the stupidity. but you're just wasting your breath, since everyone is an alpine master on this web site. then you find out that the only alpine route they ever climbed is west ridge of stewart.......

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joe_retard said:

There are old climbers and bold climbers, but not many old bold climbers. You my friend, are too tough or ignorant to rope up. Which is it chestbeater?

Big deal, you climbed liberty ridge, well just for your information hundreds of people attempt that route every year. So what's your point?

Jose

the point is obvious to me, you're a moron, rertard, can't read and if you can't grasp what bodynazi wrote eventually you're going to get yourself in trouble and either you're going to die or get fucked up. and i don't care if it is just your frozen pile of shit being carried of, but remember that a lot of people are going to get upset if you kill other people. but then again, you're just a selfish and stupid and can't think for yourself, so what do you care, right? moon.gif

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glassgokiss+Bodynazi=self appointed mountain police.

 

Just remember: in addition to getting hit by falling rock or ice, you might get clobbered by a falling climber(s). Never assume that what is up above you won't come down on top of you.

 

BTW, I think some of those roped-up "idiots" on Liberty Ridge last weekend to whom Bodynazi refers are regulars here on CCcom. And I think some of them likely have a lot more alpine experience than he.

 

Relax.

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hey faiweather - arguing with you is pointless. i see you're a complete computer climber= total moron. fucking wankers moon.gif

BTW, I think some of those roped-up "idiots" to whom Bodynazi refers are regulars here on CCcom. And I think some of them likely have a lot more alpine experience than he.

i am sure you're one of them

Edited by glassgowkiss

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Calm down, kids. I'd say it is indeed stupid to rope up and not place pro anyplace othen than a simple glacier. Fairweather: yes, falling climbers are a danger no matter what, but the rope multiplies their effect by 150. I'd agree with Glagow.

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Roped up without intermediate pro on moderate slopes and glaciers in arrestable conditions - not dumb.

 

Roped up without intermediate pro on steep, exposed pitches, or glare ice - dumb.

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"Running Belay"...often a poorly placed picket pushed into wet snow with a boot sole. You really think that's going to stop a big slide? Do you really take the time to dig a slot, and then wait while your second digs it out? Some folks do...and some don't.

 

Also, I seriously doubt Bodynazi encountered a "party of six roped together" on Liberty Ridge.

 

Also, do you really think its better to be unroped when you're step kicking up firm snow at 12,000 feet only to encounter a 300 foot stretch of hard ice which requires a belay? Do you really think its better to take the rope out...put it away...take it out....again and again?? I say its better to be roped up during the entire climb.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the premise that it is best to climb competent/ unroped on liberty ridge. But don't blow hot air just because others don't live up to your high moral standards. And if you're worried that they might "take you out" in a fall, you should probably pick lighter-traffic days to climb such a route. Or better yet, get up earlier than the other party and make sure you're in good enough shape to stay above them all day.

 

The one thing that does piss me off, is when folks don't short-rope through choss and let their full legnth rope drag it down. That's just plain lazy.

 

 

 

 

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JayB said:

Roped up without intermediate pro on moderate slopes and glaciers in arrestable conditions - not dumb.

 

Roped up without intermediate pro on steep, exposed pitches, or glare ice - dumb.

picture- 150 ft of rope out, your partner falls, can't self- arrest. sure as hell you're not going to stop him/her then, you both are going down. if there are other climbers below you- you'll floss them out too. so if they can self arrest- why use a rope anyway? right?

when you see guides with clients, they are all short-roped, hence falling object (sorry gaper wanker) can't gain momentum. when you rope up for a glacier do you walk with or without slack? right....? on a 50degree slope dressed in gore-tex speed of falling body will be very close to the speed of the freefall. try to stop someone falling rock climbing after 150 ft fall.

And if you're worried that they might "take you out" in a fall, you should probably pick lighter-traffic days to climb such a route.

typical PNW attitude, i climb, fuck the rest

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In the course of my climbing career, I've fallen in probably two dozen crevasses. In perhaps six of those cases, being roped up saved my life. Once on a winter ascent of Rainier, we were descending from the summit toward Gib Chute, three of us roped up. I was in the middle. The guy 60 feet behind me slipped when his crampon came loose and came sliding off. I arrested and saved his life (and mine and the other guy). Roped on a glacier: good in the sense that you have an excellent chance of surviving if you're roped up to someone competent.

Fall into a crevasse solo and not catch yourself: bad. Climb consistently steep snow/ice unroped: take your chances and the competent will probably survive.

Climb consistently steep snow/ice roped together: better put an anchor or two in from time to time just in case, but a self-arrest might still work (especially if the lower guy slips). A lot of this stuff, though, is particularistic upon the route conditions and the experience of the climber(s).

- Dwayner bigdrink.gifbigdrink.gif

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If there are crevasses and snowbridges =rope up. If conditions or steepness make self arresting difficult or impossible, place pro.

 

Late season, all slots open, I usually don't rope up unless there is an exposed section above a cliff or open slot, then I'll rope up and place pro. Depends on partner.

 

I was on Mt. Hood 2 weeks after the big helecopter incident. There were 4 large teams roped up and overlapping in the same spot the accident occured. They used no pro. Just 2 weeks later! madgo_ron.gif Don't we learn?

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glassgowkiss said:

joe_retard said:

There are old climbers and bold climbers, but not many old bold climbers. You my friend, are too tough or ignorant to rope up. Which is it chestbeater?

Big deal, you climbed liberty ridge, well just for your information hundreds of people attempt that route every year. So what's your point?

Jose

the point is obvious to me, you're a moron, rertard, can't read and if you can't grasp what bodynazi wrote eventually you're going to get yourself in trouble and either you're going to die or get fucked up. and i don't care if it is just your frozen pile of shit being carried of, but remember that a lot of people are going to get upset if you kill other people. but then again, you're just a selfish and stupid and can't think for yourself, so what do you care, right? moon.gif

 

Always rope up and never use pro is my motto. Look at my name!

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“Good judgment is a result of bad experiences and bad experiences is a result of poor judgment” …we all hoping to live long enough so we can have good judgments…

 

Look at this, this way…it is a way to filter the good from the bad, and to keep in check the climber’s population control…to most I will say… do as much as you can DUMB SHIT!!!…so, I can go up and see less ecological environment destruction and less peoples on already over populated activity…yeah, less is more…unlash the dumbasses

tongue.giftongue.giflaugh.giflaugh.gifcantfocus.gif

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Liberty Ridge is a moderately steep slope with no crevases till you get near Liberty Cap.

 

A competent party has no reason to rope up on the route.

 

A good alpine climber can move fast over easy to moderate terrain. In this case the route is Alpine Ice 1 or 2. If you need to belay on that kind of ground then you have no business on Liberty Ridge, and you also have no business on the route if you're roped up without an anchor.

 

Go Glassgow bigdrink.gif

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AlpineK said:

Liberty Ridge is a moderately steep slope with no crevases till you get near Liberty Cap.

 

A competent party has no reason to rope up on the route.

 

A good alpine climber can move fast over easy to moderate terrain. In this case the route is Alpine Ice 1 or 2. If you need to belay on that kind of ground then you have no business on Liberty Ridge, and you also have no business on the route if you're roped up without an anchor.

 

Go Glassgow bigdrink.gif

if that ridge was glazed with ice id consider running belays.

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If you have the rope on, then it is a simple and quick matter to place running gear if necessary. If one anticipates placing running gear, or belaying, sometimes it is easier and/or more efficient to be roped from the beginning. I certainly have climbed some snow and ice slopes roped, prepared to fire in a few screws, and then did not bother. Is this really a more dangerous practice than soloing? The thing is, Not to Fall, Ciao-D

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Conditions dictate. The route, the mountain, each can vary wildly depending on the time of year and conditions on that day.

 

I wouldn't assume climbing roped is wrong, any more than climbing unroped is wrong.

 

If you're roped in with your partner and tied in short with coils on easy ground so when you get to an ice section you can quickly uncoil and protect it with either a fixed belay or a running belay...no problem. Protect it, then back to tied in short with coils. (Assuming conditions are right).

 

I do agree that climbing on Hood, and other peaks, with a shit load of inexperienced climbers roped together with no pro can be an accident waiting to happen. But the spot where that accident occured is a spot where being roped together without pro and relying on each other to arrest is standard and VERY doable. It is not steep and self arrest should be easy (Assuming normal snow conditions). It is simply the transition point between glacier and headwall, the bergshrund. The problem isn't that they are using that method, the problem is usually experience, or lack thereof.

 

Comparing what happened on Hood with climbing tactics/style on Liberty Ridge doesn't strike me as a very good comparison.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, I didn't see what you saw.

 

picture- 150 ft of rope out, your partner falls, can't self- arrest. sure as hell you're not going to stop him/her then, you both are going down.

 

If you have 150 foot out on diffcult ground I would have some gear in. If not, then I'd tie in short with coils. The length of short would depend on the peak/route and conditions.

 

Too much bitterness and chest beating going on here. frown.gif

 

bigdrink.gif

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I'm not sure, but wasn't that famous self arrest on K2 where everybody was roped up and one person saved them from a self arrest? I believe no pro was placed then.

 

I guess they were all experienced folk.

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