telemarker Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 The more I climb on lead, and inevitably the more I fall, I have come to appreciate good pro. Just a question to ask here: When climbing granite, would you rather fall on a bomber nut or a bomber cam of similar size? Do you feel better climbing above nut placements rather than cams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 personlly that is too much thinking for me...i would rather just climb. and know that you place good gear. because all gear you place, should be well thought out and bomber. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telemarker Posted May 31, 2003 Author Share Posted May 31, 2003 Well, that's obvious. I'm just wondering, when you come to a spot where you want to place a piece, is your first instince to look for a good nut placement or do you reach for the cam?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 i look for the best placement. Â sometimes it is a nut, sometimes a cam. Â i dont prefer one over the other. Â i used to think that i should save cams for cruxy placements, but have since quased that idea. Â what piece fits best?? Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telemarker Posted May 31, 2003 Author Share Posted May 31, 2003 I guess in my learning curve, I was always so intent on plugging up cracks with cams, completely neglecting stoppers. However, nowdays, I find myself looking to place stoppers first. I've fallen on stoppers and none have pulled, even some marginal placements. Cams, twice they've pulled on me (no doubt due to pilot error). But I think there's more room for error with nut placements than cams, in climbing granite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 telemarker said: would you rather fall on a bomber nut or a bomber cam of similar size? Do you feel better climbing above nut placements rather than cams? stupid fucking shit. would you rather get your ass kicked by three women or two dudes and a little girl? guess what dipshit your still getting your ass kicked. fall on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 What are you trying to say lummox? The you fall, you've already lost the game? It doesn't matter what saves your ass? Â I'm with erik. You should put in the piece that works best. Putting in the right piece will give you the best protection for a fall, regardless of what that piece might be. Here's an example. Up on Bathtub Dome there are mostly horizontal cracks (that result from weathering of the stone?). Oftentimes, there is a constriction where you can slot a big nut and there isn't any way it is going to come out. In this case the nut is way better than the cam. A cam would just walk in and tip out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I like the feeling you get when you can see that the piece you placed physically cannot move through the space below it. Therefore I like a solid nut or hex placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Trojan Enz  otherwise nutz in constrictions and cams in parallel cracks and TRICAMS everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 iain said: I like the feeling you get when you can see that the piece you placed physically cannot move through the space below it. Therefore I like a solid nut or hex placement. Best feeling in the world! Okay, the second best, but who's counting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctuller Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Nuts and tricams are what I grab first. But the idea of the two dudes and the little girl sound good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 lummox said: stupid fucking shit. would you rather get your ass kicked by three women or two dudes and a little girl? guess what dipshit your still getting your ass kicked. fall on. Lummox, you sound pretty ignorant. If you are not falling, you are not pushing it. Falling is a good thing, in that you are pushing yourself to grow expanding your comfort zone and learning how to fall safely, etc. Â Tele, I vote for nuts. Their security depends on simpler, more predictable physics. Although the best placement depends on what the rock gives you to work with, of course. Â As a side note, I am willing to bet that the cam placements that you have had fail, were small cams. Their expansion range is smaller corresponding to a smaller margin for error in placement. It helps to place them in the narrower half or their range and to set them with a really goood tug or two ( as you would a more marginal nut placement) in the expected direction of loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Retrosaurus said: lummox said: stupid fucking shit. would you rather get your ass kicked by three women or two dudes and a little girl? guess what dipshit your still getting your ass kicked. fall on. Lummox, you sound pretty ignorant. If you are not falling, you are not pushing it. Falling is a good thing, in that you are pushing yourself to grow expanding your comfort zone and learning how to fall safely, etc. Â Tele, I vote for nuts. Their security depends on simpler, more predictable physics. Although the best placement depends on what the rock gives you to work with, of course. Â As a side note, I am willing to bet that the cam placements that you have had fail, were small cams. Their expansion range is smaller corresponding to a smaller margin for error in placement. It helps to place them in the narrower half or their range and to set them with a really goood tug or two ( as you would a more marginal nut placement) in the expected direction of loading. in my opinion youre confusing training with climbing. i prefer not to fall on climbs. somethin about good style and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I agree that you don't want to be falling when you are way up on some multipitch far far from the trailhead. Take your falls when you are at the crags one pitch up and 1 minute from the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 catbirdseat said: I agree that you don't want to be falling when you are way up on some multipitch far far from the trailhead. Take your falls when you are at the crags one pitch up and 1 minute from the road. Â Â you mean like when you are leading Air Guitar at Vantage huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_destiny Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 If God's happy with you then nuts or cams will both work And if he isn't well, neither one's going to keep you from your "date" down there  But when I go into the backcountry these days I find my protection needs are mostly from the anim,als - two and four legged.  a .357 is plenty enough protection for them, and light enough to lug around. but if they made a Titanium one I'd thank God and buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 A good placement is a good placement, whether its a 2 by 4 , a nut or cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 lummox said: in my opinion youre confusing training with climbing. i prefer not to fall on climbs. somethin about good style and shit. I don't train. I climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonb Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Placements being equal, I always prefer passive pro. I use a lot of cams, but if I have the stance and the placement I will always try to slot a nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Johnny, be careful. You're starting to sound like trask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_destiny Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Trask may be a sinner, and judging by his whoring and drinking he is below average in that category, but at least he has a sense of humour, and know's whats right in politics. Whereas I am going to pray that the Lord brings you something better to do than worry about "who's who". Here are some you probably haven't considered yet: Erik is DFA. Iain is Allison. And Gappertimmy is Jon. Amen. Â See you in church tomorrow. If the preacher shuts up early, I might even get to go climbing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Re: Protection preference  ribbed for her pleasure...  (i turn em inside out!) roooah ha ha ah ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Dru said: catbirdseat said: I agree that you don't want to be falling when you are way up on some multipitch far far from the trailhead. Take your falls when you are at the crags one pitch up and 1 minute from the road.   you mean like when you are leading Air Guitar at Vantage huh  Can't believe you went there Drude...Damn that's taking a man's woman....and his beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 plexus said: Dru said: catbirdseat said: I agree that you don't want to be falling when you are way up on some multipitch far far from the trailhead. Take your falls when you are at the crags one pitch up and 1 minute from the road.   you mean like when you are leading Air Guitar at Vantage huh  Can't believe you went there Drude...Damn that's taking a man's woman....and his beer  i figured it would be a good way to point out even falling at he crag is not "safe" and should be avoided whenever possible. a reference to the Kropp case is merely a cited instance of where a crag fall was demonstrably not safe. lots of others in ANAM. dunno what's so low about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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