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Yos

Garden Wall

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Is there any climbs on the Garden Wall at Index? I was thinking of pounding up the crack that runs up the middle. Seems like a nice place to practice aid if nobody minds.

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Cool. It doesn't hurt to ask. Anyways, does anybody ever climb or plan on climbing that mossy rock?

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I was at Private Idaho and most of the hard face/friction climbs were very mossy, perhaps nobody climbed those this last summer, perhaps for several years. I am going to this coming dry season and will even clean them if necessary. I wouldn't want somebody to bolt-ladder them or chip holds.

"Yos", I don't imply you are ignorant of the issues, I just think that if there is any doubt, it is better to not pound in pins and Index is definitely high on the "doubt" scale.

I think that there are places all over where one can play with A4-5. And I suspect that if it's A1-3 one doesn't need to train while ascending, just pound the pins in big stones and get the feel of it. Other logistics can be worked out doing "clean" aid. Aid experts, correct me here, please.

Haven't been to the Garden Wall but Cramer's book lists 4 10d-11b climbs there.

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Rafael,

I'm not an "aid expert", but just want to note that there are in fact still a (very) few nail-ups in existence at Index, or at least, routes that have not gone clean.

That said, you are all correct, that Index is generally a "clean" climbing area and pinning routes there will generally raise more than a few eyebrows. I have never seen or heard much about the Garden Wall so I don't know about the crack in question, but I would agree that if in doubt, don't.

Yos, if you are intent to practice nailing there, my advice is to either practice in some talus pile or junky old wall, or if possible, consult privately with knowledgeable locals about which routes at Index are still considered acceptable to use pins and/or heads. Providing a list here is probably not appropriate, however, given the sensitive nature of the issue. Just dig around and be sure of the local consensus before swinging the hammer. Btw, Rafael is correct, of the above mentioned nail-ups that still exist at Index, none to my knowledge are easier than A3+. In other words, anything left at Index that goes at A3 or under pretty much can be done with clean gear at a moderate grade C3 or less- a good reminder/guideline to keep in mind.

Cheers.

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I climbed probably four routes at the garden wall, over 10 years ago now. The routes are great, and I reccomend that you clean em, instead of nail em! Go over to Lworth and find some unclimbable pile of crap, or anything that looks like no one would ever want to free climb on it, and wail away. I typically find the need for an occasional pin in the Snoqualmie Pass area, where the rock is such that even micro pins won't go. But that's only one or two pins, mind you. Also, the ice climbs at Banks often tr with a mix of pro, including pins. The volcanoes need them, on the few technical rock routes that I've done there.

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Garden Wall has a couple of entertaining free climbs. I agree with the comments that it's probably not a good area to nail. As for Private Idaho, I climbed there a few times earlier this year. I agree that it could be rescrubbed. However, "Spineless" was spotless! [big Drink]

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I'd agree with most of the advice given previously here. There are several areas at Index which have the potential to be good aid practice areas that are off the beaten track. One place would be the area between the Wart and the Sentry Box at the Lower Lump. This area is steep, has a bit of loose rock and I wouldn't be surprised if a few pins wouldn't come in handy.

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In the old Clint Cummings index guidebook, there is a climb shown called “nailing practice” rated A1, no stars, in the area that Daryl is refering to.

Three or four years ago, I bought a used pin rack and wanted to practice, so I went looking for it one hot, humid summer evening after work. I headed off into the woods just to the right of the Wart with a good sized load of aid climbing gear strapped to my back. Before I even got across the tracks, I was drenched in sweat, which seemed to act as a homing beacon for every mosquito in the greater Index/Baring area. Once they found me, they never left, constantly hovering around my face and making kamikaze dives into my ears, when they weren’t actually sucking my blood. Annoyed, but undetered I plunged into the trailless woods in search of the “nailing practice” pitch. To the right of the Wart, the terrain is made up of treacherous moss covered talus and rotten logs. I kept falling, when the moss would tear off a rock that I was jumping on to, or a rotten log would break under the weight of me and my sizeable pile of aid gear. Falling is a much bigger deal when you have a really big load on your back, it hurts more and it’s much harder to get up. After a miserable hour of falling, swatting, and looking, I was down about 3 pounds to sweat loss, the mosquitos had made off with a good quart of my blood, my shoulders were killing me from the mountain of gear I was carrying, and I didn’t want to move anymore, because I kept fallin on mossy rocks and rotten logs. I gave up on finding the elusive “nailing practice” pitch and decided that instead I would just do some traversing a few feet off the ground on some hooks and pin stacks. I set-up and traversing left, made about half a dozen really dicey moves on crappy hooks and pins in incipient cracks. I was just starting to have fun when, standing on a pin stack, I made a really long reach to place a hook, the stack blew, and due to the fact that I was stretched out I hit the ground really hard. No I mean, really hard! That was enough for me. I packed up my bag, said good-bye to the mosquitos, tripped over the moss covered stones and rotten logs back out to the car, and drove to the Index store for an ice cold 16 ounce can of Schmidt Ice.

Except for the cold beer, this was easily the worst time I’ve ever had climbing.

I guess the moral is, as previously stated in this thread, pin practice at Index isn't a good idea, and I might add, its not very fun either.

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revleftsentry.jpg

Not sure what Clint was refering to but here is an old picture of the area I was thinking of. Lots of overhanging cracks.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ]

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ]

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If it ever snows at index great northern slab looks like a great place to practice 3-pin technique.

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A couple of days before Christmas I took a friend to the GNS. While rapping off I noticed someone sunk a pin into the lower part of the 5.10c corner/thin crack boulder problem. Most of the areas around the lower wall are free climbs, clean aid or potential soon-to-be free climbs. Please don't pound pins in clean climbing routes.

On another note, I have noticed a lot of old hardware has been removed and replaced with new hardware. I would like to thank those folks who have taken the time and money to upgrade the area.

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i heard you can get a great z-ton stack going in that big pocket on chain reaction at smith. a0 bolt ladder to that point, though, so the route doesn't really offer much in the way of nailing practice.

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quote:

Originally posted by TimL:
A couple of days before Christmas I took a friend to the GNS. While rapping off I noticed someone sunk a pin into the lower part of the 5.10c corner/thin crack boulder problem

Was the pin still there?

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Raf,

It was the first time I've seen it there and I left it. Didn't have the means to take it out. How was the rest of your time in Canada? I talked to Wes and he said he saw you guys at Icy BC.

TL

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it was still there monday morning

come to think of it, the saturday someone tried to break into my truck (12/22) I was setting up to climb the first pitch of the lizard when this wanker sprints up to that pin and starts hammering away like a mad man. I said "nice morning eh" and he just muttered something. nice guy. Maybe he was pissed off at not being able to get that pin out (he tried for 1/2 an hour)so he vandalized my truck. BASTARD! mad.gif" border="0

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Bronco ]

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