Szyjakowski Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 what are REAL routes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctuller Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 runouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Just found out that the new book has Crack of Doom as 5.10b. Â When I first climbed it before cams it was 5.9. Â The last guidebook had it at 5.10a. I thought cams made routes easier. Â Now it is 5.10b? Every other 5.10 route on Castle is harder. Devil's Fright at 5.10b is way harder . The Bone at 5.9 is not significantlly harder than Crack of Doom. Â Whoever gave input to increase the rating must never have climbed other 5.10 routes on Castle. Â At this rate I will be soloing 5.11 when I'm 50. Â Maybe it will be easier when it gets bolted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 (edited) "When I first climbed it before cams it was 5.9."  Nice Mitch, but you aren't old enough to have climbed it before cams........you may have been alive and not using them, but the cams were available when you started climbing, unless there are two Mitch Merriman's still climbing in the NW.  "I thought cams made routes easier"  Depends on the route, my young jedi...but you already knew that, right?  For rating changes check out Easter Overhang...it went from 5.9 to 5.10c! Hell were were doing laps on it with nuts, even before EBs (they were an early brand of rock shoe retro boy were easily available in the mid '70s. No question EO is easier on cams.  How the hell are you anyway? Fulton said he see you once in awhile. But I am the first to admit...you two are getting old!  Dane  Edited June 7, 2003 by Dane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Having never met Mitch, I can't vouch for his age. However, as far as I can recall, "cams" were first available in about 1978 or '79 when Jardine was selling/trading them for ropes in The Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 (edited) Knowing Mitch about the time he first started climbing Matt, I can vouch for his age When I met Mitch we still considered any one younger than us a "kid". No one had heard the word retro or trad related to climbing yet.  Times change, my sense of humor hasn't.  I bought my first friends from Roland Paulick of RP fame in Camp 4 of '79. He was Jardine's "sales manager" in the valley that fall. The were outragious @ $15 a piece....I bought one of each first time around(all 4 of them). And dbls of the 1s and 2s by the end of the week. You couldn't buy them in any store we'd been in yet. But you are right they had been "around" and available for over a year.  Both the RPs and the smaller freinds really opened up the posibilities of decent protection on thin cracks for me.  Things like Air Roof, ROTC, Thin Fingers, Jihad, Lingerie, Yahoody, Clean crack, Serenity Crack were harder (or unhealthy) on the typical nuts available.  Last I hear Mitch could still take decent care of himself for an old guy  I just read the beginning of this thread for the first time. You guys crack me up! Best laugh I have had in some time. I was just pitching Mitch some shit but whoooooooaaaaaa some of you guys are delusional !  If you haven't lead, Timson's on Givlers, WF Direct on Grand Central or Slender thread and Easter O. on Midnight, Zebra Zion in Smith then you really can't say you lead 5.10 in the NW let alone run anything out @5.8 or 9.  Clipping aint real climbing. Please don't relate the typical, , to an actual, honest to GOD rock climb, it is only embrassing. Edited June 8, 2003 by Dane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Dane said: Nice Mitch, but you aren't old enough to have climbed it before cams........you may have been alive and not using them, but the cams were available when you started climbing, unless there are two Mitch Merriman's still climbing in the NW. Â OK, they were available somewhere but no one used them. They were definitely not proven trustworthy. They had moving parts and stuff. Â "I thought cams made routes easier"Â Depends on the route, my young jedi...but you already knew that, right? Â Yeah. Crack of Doom particularly. Â For rating changes check out Easter Overhang...it went from 5.9 to 5.10c! Hell were were doing laps on it with nuts, even before EBs (they were an early brand of rock shoe retro boy were easily available in the mid '70s. No question EO is easier on cams. Â ...and so will Crack of doom in the next edition of the guide. (Remember PAs?) Â How the hell are you anyway? Fulton said he see you once in awhile. But I am the first to admit...you two are getting old! Â A youthful 42. I don't think I would recognize New Wave Dave without lycra. And it seems like I read a letter in in a climbing rag from a "Dane" about 10 years ago , bragging about being old and fat and out-of-shape and still cranking harder than the punks. Maybe it was 15 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Retrosaurus said:Â Â A youthful 42. shitdamn..your THAT old?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Retrosaurus said: OK, they were available somewhere but no one used them. They were definitely not proven trustworthy. They had moving parts and stuff. Â You're showing yourself to have hung out with a conservative crowd, Mitch. They caught on real fast in Yosemite and all the kids were using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 they didn't catch on that quick as Jardine at first used to tote them around in a black bag refering to them as his "Bag of friendz" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 (edited) "they didn't catch on that quick " Â Let's not attempt to rewrite history after reading the current Wild Country catalog The reason they got hauled around in a "black bag" was because the use of Friends allowed any number of difficult cracks to be climbed that were not going to go free without fixed pins, which no one was excited about. And some clearly wouldn't allow. Things were pretty competitive in the Valley during the '70s. Jardine and his mates knew what they had. Besides the business side of having one of the big advances to free climbing in there hands and the finacial sucess it might bring, there were climbs to be done! Â Fire's were almost as much a leap forward for free climbing but harder to hide. Â But here is question for you? Pat Timson was leading hard face climbs in funky shoes, Washboards @ .10c in '71, and Timson's Face @ 5.10d in '76. Then Timson flashs (by the guide book account) Super Crack @ .12c in 1980. All climbs well above the grades being done by even the typical hardmen of the day. Â Gotta wonder if he bothered with using "friends" on Super crack. Anyone actually know the story behind that climb? Gotta be a good one! Edited June 8, 2003 by Dane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Szyjakowski said: shitdamn..your THAT old?!? Not only am I that old, you are that young. What would you know about the advent of friends? Did your daddy tell you about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I thought that the reason they got hauled around in the black bag was because Jardine could not afford to patent them until The Yosemite Airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 read it in a book. come climbing tomorrow. call me leaving around 6 bridge or other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Retrosaurus said: Just found out that the new book has Crack of Doom as 5.10b. Â When I first climbed it before cams it was 5.9. Â The last guidebook had it at 5.10a. I thought cams made routes easier. Â Now it is 5.10b? Every other 5.10 route on Castle is harder. Devil's Fright at 5.10b is way harder . The Bone at 5.9 is not significantlly harder than Crack of Doom. Â Whoever gave input to increase the rating must never have climbed other 5.10 routes on Castle. Â At this rate I will be soloing 5.11 when I'm 50. Â Maybe it will be easier when it gets bolted? Â I've got a theory. Today, our average Seattle-area climber gets his start in the gym or at exit 38, where he learns that sport climbing has pushed the standards well beyond where they were 15 years ago. He reads in his favorite rag that 5.10 is an introductory level by modern standards. Down at the gym, 5.10 seems easy enough since he only needs to clip the rope into fixed quick draws (and since gym owners know that easy grades will boost their customers' confidence/ego and earn their patronage). Â Back at the crag, our gym rat finds that 5.9 at Castle Rock is a shade harder than the 5.10's he's been sending at the gym. Soon, popular opinion is that the guidebook rating needs to be updated to modern, gym climbers' standards. Thus, 5.9 evolves into 5.10b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Retrosaurus said: Just found out that the new book has Crack of Doom as 5.10b. Â When I first climbed it before cams it was 5.9. Â The last guidebook had it at 5.10a. I thought cams made routes easier. Â Now it is 5.10b? Every other 5.10 route on Castle is harder. Devil's Fright at 5.10b is way harder . The Bone at 5.9 is not significantlly harder than Crack of Doom. Â Whoever gave input to increase the rating must never have climbed other 5.10 routes on Castle. Â At this rate I will be soloing 5.11 when I'm 50. Â Maybe it will be easier when it gets bolted? Â Not that I think Crack of Doom is 10b, but when VK asked for info for the new guide did you step up and offer any useful advice/beta/corrections? or did you offer your predictable selection of snide remarks? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 ooooooooooooooooo  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 slaphappy said: when VK asked for info for the new guide did you step up and offer any useful advice/beta/corrections? or did you offer your predictable selection of snide remarks? Thanks. he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I have climbed in Yosemite, the Utah Desert, and other trad destinations and I find the ratings on Castle rock to be slightly sandbagged compared to YOSEMITE where the rating system originated and should (IMHO) be set by. As you get into the harder grades they numbers tend to get more correct. For instance I thought Supercrack was not that hard for being a .12. The first time I did Damnation Crack I thought it was a little hard for 5.9 or whatever but probably is a .10a or something around there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 the YDS originated in Taquitz/Suicide.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I guess that's why the call it the Taquitz/Suicide rocks Decimal Rating system (or TSRDS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 it probably had something to do with they all climbed in both places and they knew which area was going to be more famous... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hey Retro, Did you get a look at the topo? Crack o' Doom might be 10b if you exited the crack left, or came in from the right via that overhanging finger crack. Â (but entering from the left and exiting from the right, it's much easier than Breakfast of Champions, so that way it's only 5.9 like Retro sez) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 slaphappy said: Retrosaurus said: Just found out that the new book has Crack of Doom as 5.10b. Â When I first climbed it before cams it was 5.9. Â The last guidebook had it at 5.10a. I thought cams made routes easier. Â Now it is 5.10b? Every other 5.10 route on Castle is harder. Devil's Fright at 5.10b is way harder . The Bone at 5.9 is not significantlly harder than Crack of Doom. Â Whoever gave input to increase the rating must never have climbed other 5.10 routes on Castle. Â At this rate I will be soloing 5.11 when I'm 50. Â Maybe it will be easier when it gets bolted? Â Not that I think Crack of Doom is 10b, but when VK asked for info for the new guide did you step up and offer any useful advice/beta/corrections? or did you offer your predictable selection of snide remarks? Thanks. I didn't bolt any cracks for it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Szyjakowski said: Aug or Sept is when they open midnight  I'm confident that the best time to climb at Midnight is in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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