Szyjakowski Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Aug or Sept is when they open midnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Szyjakowski said: Aug or Sept is when they open midnight  Perfect... cause I know for a fact Norsky ain't pullin no ROTC in the near future. Homeboy's got a 20+ lb layer of winter fat hangin off of his gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Climbed at Goat Dome last Saturday. I had never been there before and it looked to be some what cooler (in temps).  The friction is by far the very best I have been on in Lworth.  Unfortunately the routes I did are poorly arranged. With the clips coming after crux moves  I enjoy a "heady" lead as much as anybody, but after seeing how poorly placed the bolts were (or non existant) I was a bit reluctant to attempt routes at my limit. Too bad... its the best friction I've found in the Icicle.  Knobs of Shame is a fun lead, Dick is Dead is good as well but you got to have your stuff since it has only 2 bolts for the last blank 50ft crux.  Fun climbing but I would not recomend it due to the approach and poor bolt spacing.  Climbed at Alphabet on Sun the moves on Meat Grinder are F'ing hard , and had Trundle Dome on Monday to ourselves.  great weekend to be climbing, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 ditto on teh meat grinder... especially if you have long skinny arms like me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 GOAT dome just gets more slimey each year.... The bolts are spaced in true Leavenworth oldskewl form....scary, thrilling and fun, fun, fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I just love Goat Dome. I think the routes are quite thrilling, and have no qualms with the bolt spacing. Feels GREAT to clip AFTER the hard moves. Move up, make hard move, clip bolt, relax sphincter, repeat. Â I have never been able to find Reach for a Peach from up there. Anyone got foolproof beta for finding theat climb from GD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Dont go to GoatDome if you are looking for RFAP second switch back after ditch crossing on snowcreektrail go straight up little rock and traverse above ditch for a loooooong way thru brush, sand and crap....typical icicle approach except mostly sidehilling. Look for snag near route... scramble up to route and climb...or roll down hill from spacealiens stole my face... I reccommend first way. cool climb but long way to go for 90' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Right, szyj. Thanks. Â I've always tried to approach it from SASMF, but looking/scrambling/slipping down the hill never put me near it. I wasn't about to bushwhack UP to it from teh trail, but figgered that downhilling it for a quick zip up it would be easy from the Dome. Guess I'll just let it go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 NO YOU MUST DO IT THIS WEEKEND OR DOOM WILL BEFALL UPON YOU and YOUR FAMILY!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 lunger said: catbirdseat said: On Sunday, we did Planet of the Eights, then Poison Ivy Crack. I only noticed the poison ivy after I set my rock shoes on some of it. I must not be allergic anymore, because I haven't broken out. Yos got a cam stuck up near the crux and between us we spent 45 minutes trying to free it. We finally abandoned it and left it to the amusement of others. Â In the afternoon, we went over to Purina Crag and did Ordinary Crack, 5.8, which I led, and a 5.10a three star route, which Yos led. It was a nice one and worthy of its rating. CBS: I mighta met you at Poison Ivy crack; was that you that recommended Existential Exit (which I presume is the 10a 3-star route mentioned)? At any rate, that route is a stellar, varied and steep 10a lead. very nice, so thanks to whoever mentioned it. quid pro quo: check out Condo corner, right side of Careno sometime. Tumwater/Icicle canyons rocked this weekend, surprisingly not too crowded. Â Nope, Lunger, that was me you met at Poison Ivy Crack - what with my partner yelling down every freakin' minute to watch out for the poison ivy - Â Hope you guys enjoyed your weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 pope said: Norsky said: Anyone done ROTC? Looks wide...is it? I lost my old book and I've never been up to Midnight Rock. That's about all I want to still do in Levy. Â The crux is hiking up there. Never mind the crack. Â I watched our man Pope workin' his way through that a few years back - you know when Pope's breathin' hard, it ain't easy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Smoker said: Unfortunately the routes I did are poorly arranged. With the clips coming after crux moves Meaning that you could not clip a bolt and be toproped through the crux moves? You had to make hard moves above your protection? I am so sorry. Are you sure climbing is the right sport for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Climbed OS on SCW Friday. ~3 hrs. Rained from the 3rd pitch to the top. Drenched, but warm and windless. Helps to be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Retro, if the bolts come right after rather than right before the crux moves, most of us would say there was an unnecessary runout involved because the same number of bolts could have better protected the climb in question. In this context, I think your belief that the advent of gym and sport climbing has led most of us to become timid leaders is overstated. If what you think is that the climbs in question should not have any bolts, or should have fewer bolts, that is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 gee matt - maybe the stance they hand drilled from occurs inconveniently after the crux instead of before, huh??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Yes, Dru, you are correct that stances do not always come conveniently before crux's. In that sense, maybe it seemed "necessary" or "convenient" to place a bolt after the crux's on some of the climbs at Goat Dome. I don't remember the climbs up there in any great detail and I am not sure of the history here (were they put up on lead, by somebody who may have been too sketched-out to place a bolt before they just sucked it up and ran through the crux and then stopped at the first available stance, or were they put up on rappel by somebody who had the luxury of being able to choose exactly where to put the bolts?). I can't speculate on what the first ascentionists did and why. Â I do believe, however, that for most of us it would be prefereable to have a bolt before a difficult move rather than after. A bolt is a bolt and the amount of an eyesore created or the damage done is pretty much the same either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I am sure that nearly all (or all) the bolts on Goat Dome were drilled on rappel. Â The point that I was alluding to was that it is much more rewarding to make moves above your protection rather than below it. By today's standards a well-bolted route has a bolt at arms reach above every crux. Â Glorified toproping. Â There are dangerous runnouts and there are interesting runnouts. Er, I mean, there used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Even if drilled on rappel, on many slab climbs, it's better to have the bolt at some sort of stance or rest where one can stop moving long enough to suck up a bight and clip. At least on 5.10+ and up slab, for me, I find a lot of times a smooth motion is the only thing that keeps me going, and if I stop in the middle of some friction moves, POP. If that stance is (gasp) above the crux, so be it. Â Then again I have once or twice put up climbs on lead without bolts due to lack of a drill, and deliberately located the bolts placed later so that when one is cruxing the bolt will be below foot level and the crux hence uncheatable or as the French say, "obligatoire". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Dru said: ...deliberately located the bolts placed later so that when one is cruxing the bolt will be below foot level and the crux hence uncheatable... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 what the fuk i think most bolts were on rapel but some routes ground up...like the cracks and others. all i know is the dome sux and is not worth the hike when you can drive to domestic; same rock different location runouts are old skewl... deal or die! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Retrosaurus said: Smoker said: Unfortunately the routes I did are poorly arranged. With the clips coming after crux moves Meaning that you could not clip a bolt and be toproped through the crux moves? You had to make hard moves above your protection? I am so sorry. Are you sure climbing is the right sport for you?  Meaning that if they had been placed on lead the bolts would have been placed where they belong instead of being contrived into something they are not.  6 clips and gear in 100ft is not old school  Like it or not the lower grades set the tone for how the rock there was developed. I'm saying it was poorly thought out.  Sorry to criticize your work Mitch great rock none the less   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Bolts placed on lead will usually be placed at decent stances unless the leader rested on a hook when drilling the hole. (this technique was described as part of putting up a route in good style in some post entered over the last few days but I think this is often bad style in that it often results in a bolt being left at a place where it is difficult to clip). It is not always true, however, that bolts placed on lead will be placed "where they belong." Without the benefit of pre-inspecting the pitch, the leader does not always know where the best path lies or where the best belay ledge is going to be, and I think "where they belong" has to do with these and other issues most who are bolting on the lead do not take the time to consider, or are not relaxed enough to fully consider - such as the potential for rope drag or how their bolts may protect the second. Â I am not advocating bolting all climbs so that there is no adventure. One common criticism of modern sport bolted climbs is that they are "contrived" and I've done what Dru described, too, but it is equally contrived to deliberately bolt a pitch so that crux moves are well above the pro bolts as it is to bolt that same pitch so the hard moves can be cheated or to go to great lenghts to assure that most or all hard moves are well-protected. When you do anything other than a ground-up ascent, following the easiest possible path using all available means of making progress, it is all a contrivance. I think there is and should be room for a variety of styles. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Smoker said: Retrosaurus said: Smoker said: Unfortunately the routes I did are poorly arranged. With the clips coming after crux moves Meaning that you could not clip a bolt and be toproped through the crux moves? You had to make hard moves above your protection? I am so sorry. Are you sure climbing is the right sport for you?  Meaning that if they had been placed on lead the bolts would have been placed where they belong instead of being contrived into something they are not.  6 clips and gear in 100ft is not old school  Like it or not the lower grades set the tone for how the rock there was developed. I'm saying it was poorly thought out.  Sorry to criticize your work Mitch great rock none the less  THOSE routes aren't mitchs'... read your book again. the people that did those roots... I believe are all over 6' tall. SLab climbin always feels fuked for bolt placement. get over it man. there not fuked you are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norsky Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 bird said: Szyjakowski said: Aug or Sept is when they open midnight  Perfect... cause I know for a fact Norsky ain't pullin no ROTC in the near future. Homeboy's got a 20+ lb layer of winter fat hangin off of his gut.  What a dick! I'm going on a diet and everyone knows it. I'm not sure Bird could squeeze in a trip to Midnight Rock with his grueling climbing schedule these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth_Man Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Anybody who thinks that runouts are old school doesn't climb much of a variety of routes. Â There are so many routes I can think of that require some kind of climbing above gear. If you don't have the presence of mind to deal with it 'cause you've been toproping yourself up sport routes all along then you're gonna have trouble with probably 50% of the trad routes out there. Â Then how's ya gonna brag to your friends when your normally 5.11 sport ass can't even deal with a 5.8? Â Sheesh get out and do some real routes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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