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Thinker

Mounties and WAC climbing the Tooth this weekend

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proper said:

I'd say the mounties are more accomodating than the mountie bashers.

 

Ridiculous. We can't blame them for being annoying because they made an attempt before-hand to warn us that they were going to be annoying?

 

That reminds me of that Simpson's episode where Bart says "I'm gonna walk towards you windmilling my arms, and if you get hit, it's your fault".

 

Neither the Mounties, nor anyone else, should be out in the mountains in large groups. It is just too disruptive.

 

Freakin' Gore-tex-encrusted locusts!

 

 

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Sloth_Man said:

A more mature response would be "hey we really do annoy a lot of people it seems. Maybe next time we shouldn't take over a whole area."

 

So a more mature response would be to do what YOU think is right. Coming from Mr. Objective...

 

"Mounties suck. I don't care what their excuses are for being stupid."

 

"It's a distastefull combination of mediocre climbers trying to be cool by 'leading' classes full of wide eyed idiots that'd be better off if they stayed with their shiny cars."

 

"Shouldn't they be golfing or something, climbing is dirty and dangerous. Waaaaaaaaay too scary for those suburbanites."

 

"I wanted to climb and they were nice to me and let me, so I'm going to complain about it"

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So, in summary, after 3 1/2 pages we have learned that...

 

People who aren't involved with climbing organizations are annoyed by people who are, and people who are involved with climbing organizations are not. Wow. boxing_smiley.gif

 

But I have learned a valuable lesson: Everyone should trade in your goretex so we don't read about "disgruntled Mountie-haters going postal in Commonwealth Basin" in Accidents in N.A. Mountaineering next year.

 

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wrench said:

So, in summary, after 3 1/2 pages we have learned that...

 

People who aren't involved with climbing organizations are annoyed by people who are, and people who are involved with climbing organizations are not. Wow. boxing_smiley.gif

 

 

You've left out another permutation: I'm not a member of any climbing organization and the 'climbing groups' do not bother me or have any impact on my climbing experience.

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You know why Mounties swarm the Toof? They like it for the same reasons I do.....it's a great climb, especially for beginners. A reasonable approach, often on snow, easy 5th class climbing on mostly decent rock. And some rappeling action for the new guys if that be their thing. The only problem is....those doggone Mountaineers aren't out there in random groups of 2 or 3, they are out there in herds. I don't think I've ever been on that mountain, except in winter, without several parties of these folks flailing about. (Recommendation: wear a helmet.)

 

And they train hundreds more each year, and they head in herds for the popular beginners climbs. (I saw about 50 of them out at Spire Rock a couple of weeks ago and said to one of their clipboard wieldin' "instructors": wow! small group this time! The guy told me that was only half of them....the other half had been there the day before!And I heard there were 200? in the Seattle class this year. ) And they tell you that it's only a weekend here or there....nonsense....there are several chapters of the Mountee's, plus other similar "mountaineering for the masses" type organizations (WAC, Boealps).

And don't get me started on their "instructors" and "mentors".....oy! As a former professional guide, I cringe. That being said....many of these Mountee's are friendly and well-meaning....it's just sad to meet an increasing number of members of the swarm on the easier climbs where I like to take a friend or two on occasion or just enjoy them myself. And speaking of myself....don't get me started either about how the Mountee's used to approach and admonish me for solo climbing!!

 

This topic.....it took almost four pages to get me worked up. And then there are those crappy magazines and REI who want to see as many people in the mountains as possible so they can sell lots of CRAP including cute little blouses and khaki shorts! Yeeeeeee!

 

- Dwayner.....here Mountaineers....have a beer bigdrink.gifbigdrink.gif (if it ain't against the rules).

 

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The simple fact is that large groups suck no matter who they are. The mounties often act like they own the climbing area rather than sharing it with the community.

 

They publish some good books though. mushsmile.gif

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We were all rookies at one point in time, and have to show respect for others that wish to share the mountains. But there has to be a balance. For example, 2 years ago on Hood (dog route) I witnessed a Mazama group of 5. Guide had all 4 of 'em short-roped together zig-zaging above the 'shrund creating quite a dangerous situation and bottleneck delay. Could've easily started a catastrophe not unlike the heli incident in 2002. (in other words, newbies fall creating chain reaction)

 

At that point I questioned my own intelligence for selecting such a swap meet route. Never again...

 

We can bash them all we want, but realize that they are not going away and growing in number. So get an early start, play hookey & climb on weekdays

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slothrop said:

Dustin_B said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. The reality of the situation has little affect this.

 

That's some half-assed thinking, there, Dustin. You assert that a person's perception of reality is subjective (whoa, dude! no way!) and then claim that you somehow have access to a superior objective reality?

 

I never claimed to be in any other reality wazzup.gif I'm just aware of how people think and act. I am just as guilty as the next person about what I stated. When I get these ideas about people, groups, or whatever I just remind myself of this flaw that we have.

 

Speaking to all:

I hate large groups in the mountains, I hate pricks in the mountains. I'm assuming most of the Mountaineer leaders are just like you, normal climbers. Of course some are pricks, just like every where else in society. People tend to remember the bad encounters and not the encounters where there were no problems. Maybe the Mountaineers have a higher percentage of pricks than normal but you might chalk that up to not being able to relax on basic climbs where you have to worry about the students killing themselve all the time.

 

I know this is going to piss off a lot of people off but the Everett Mountaineers will have a group of 50 people at on the slopes of Stevens Pass next weekend (which is closed). I'm sure if you are on that route and you ask, they will let you climb through. yellaf.gif

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Sloth_Man said:

...

The fact is that large groups bother me. Get it fuck heads , large groups bother me.

...

I tried to explain what was so annoying about you guys in a reasonable way and got childish and weak grade school comebacks , and no acknoledgment of the validity of the issue or my feelings about it.

...

But just in case you're not mounties and there is some hope for you to become climbers

 

Ha, ha, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. I'm sorry people responded to nice post in such a rude way. Same on us.

 

But I agree with your statement about large groups.

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