Ski tuning?

[fleblebleb]

Do you all tune your skis yourselves? Dave Parker I should de-tune my edges at the shovels/tails, a little bit. I don't really know how to do it. So, couple of questions...

 

Where do you take your skis if you don't do it yourselves?

 

What is the kit if you do it yourselves? A "stone"? I don't even know what that is A bastard file? What kind of roughness? Is it easy to fill in a scratch, as long as it isn't too bad? Paul Parker's book has a chapter on ski tuning, I figure I'll read it until I understand what he's talking about.

[Figger_Eight]

I do most of the work myself, but occasionally bring it to the shop for the tough stuff.

 

There's some good info here: Tognars site

[mattp]

If you aren't looking for real high-performance but just want to have fun in the back-country, it is no big deal. You can sharpen your edges once in a while (detuning tips and tails as DP said) and maybe hit the bases with some wax and a warm iron, and you're good to go. I used to tune my skis regularly when I was sking in the donwnhill areas, but it really doesn't matter all that much for skiing the volcano's as you intend to do. More important, in my view, is to inspect your bindings and boots and poles once in a while to watch for signs of impending failure of a buckle or basket that will really hamper your fun in the sun.

[allison]

Get an old iron (one with no steam holes) from Goodwill and some wax and a scraper and do your own hand waxes.

 

Get base repair and edge work done at a good shop.

 

This is the maximally easy way, as serious tuning doesn't need to be done all that often and it is super duper easy to learn how to do a nice hot wax.

[gregm]

there is a practice popular among tele skiers of smoothing edges so they aren't so catchy. but, i was tele-ing on an icy section on adams (below false summit) with a dude who had done this. i was able to ski it fine with my sharp edges but he ended up taking his skis off and booting down for a while.

[allison]

Um, it's called detuning, and it is not just the province of free-heelers.

[ski_photomatt]

I agree with MattP. I finally "tuned" my skies a month or so ago after putting in 100+ days on them, and that was only because my skins were getting so old and the glue so nasty it had left lots of sticky stuff on the bases. A little base cleaner and a simple hot wax and they were good to go. I actually prefer the bases a little sticky and un-waxed: performance isn't an issue going down hill, and the little extra friction is very useful skiing out through woods and up tiny hills where I can make very shallow stitchbacks without skins. When freshly waxed, they feel a little too slippery.

 

I will say this though: if you hit a rock and take out a part of the base next to an edge it is a good idea to drip some p-tex into the hole, otherwise snow melts and freezes in it, or you can easily blow out the edge on another rock. You can buy a p-tex stick at a ski shop for a few dollars, light it with a lighter and drip the burning p-tex into the hole. It doesn't burn cleanly and will only last for 20 ski days or less (shops use something akin to a hot glue gun from what I understand to get the p-tex real hot and cleanly melted), but it will protect the edge.

[David_Parker]

Detune tips and tails prevents catching edges. On tele skis I detune outside edges back further than inside. Rest of ski edges should be sharp or at least smooth with no burrs from hitting rocks. Wax is not just for speed and you should wax frequently to keep your bases from drying out. Get any old iron at a thrift store. Holes don't matter. Petex is for scratches and minor gouges, but any core shots should be done with a base welder. (I have one). Use a sharp cabinet scraper (steel) for scraping petex and use a plastic scraper for hot wax. If you don't intend to use your skis for awhile, put on a layer of wax and leave it until you ski next. Cover the edges so they don't rust. A stone is like a knife sharpening stone but smaller so you can carry it with you to debur spots when you hit a rock. I aso have a diamond stone which works great. If your bases aren't flat, you'll need to go to a shop to have them belt sanded and/or stone ground. $30 every once in a while makes a big difference. I used to do it when I was a ski bum so I have all the right tools, which helps, but a 10" bastard file, a stone, 2 scrapers, an iron some petex, wax, and a bench with a clamp (I use a couple 4x4 blocks and a gripper clamp) and you'll be able to do most all you need to be happier in them dar hills!

[nonanon]

I hot wax regularly, but very rarely break out a file and then only for the biggest burrs. The one time I had my skis professionally tuned, I let them bevel the edges and absolutely hated the way they skied ever after. Years ago, there was an article in some climbing magazine about ski mountaineering. IIRC, the writer recommended never tuning or waxing your skis because if you’re on an expedition, they’ll inevitably go to shit so you oughta just get used to it. Easily the worst advise I ever read.

[mattp]

As far as waxing goes, what's this business about keeping the bottoms coated or you'll dry out the p-tex? Every ski tuning manual I've read has said this, but I have never really worried about it and the bottoms of my skis have gone bare for years at a time with no apparent problem. Don't take a freshly hot-waxed pair of skis in the back country without adding some kicker wax if you want to be able to stand up or walk around, though!

 

The manuals don't often point this out, but I much more often wax my skins -- to prevent them from clogging when there is dry cold snow over wet - than I do my skis.

 

Similarly, even on the icyest of slopes I can only think of a couple of times when I thought my skis weren't sharp enough, whereas I can think of lots and lots of times when my buddies with their freshly tuned skis were catching edges left and right.

 

[fleblebleb]

Phew, a tad bit overwhelmed

 

Freshly hot-waxed not able to stand or walk, yup, that was me Saturday. I guess I have never skied a pair of recently tuned skis before in my life, heh, or ones with half as much cut.

 

To de-tune edges at shovels/tails, do I use a fine-grain bastard file? Stand the ski on its tail and lean the shovel into a corner? (I don't think I have easy access to a vise...) Then slide the file downwards and outwards in a curvy motion? I'm pretty much just guessing, can you tell?

 

 

Thanks for the tips everyone!

[Toast]

Fleb, it'll help to watch a friend or to take a ski tuning clinic your first time. If you'd prefer to hire out, you can take your skis up to Pro Ski Service on Aurora and about 90th... park around back. Chat up Martin while you're there. The shop looks like shit from the outside, but he and all of his staff are pretty knowledgeable.

[cj001f]

mattp said:

As far as waxing goes, what's this business about keeping the bottoms coated or you'll dry out the p-tex? Every ski tuning manual I've read has said this, but I have never really worried about it and the bottoms of my skis have gone bare for years at a time with no apparent problem.

Most(all) skis will last under a week before the P-Tex begins to look dry and scaly (sort of like a chocolate bar thats been frozen) and really begin to slow down. It's particularly a problem with comp/race skis as the P-Tex is often a different blend. It's more noticeable on non-white base materials.

 

If your looking for tuning equipment - check out yur local ski shop, or REI they're clearing out the stuff right now (though the best stuff is probably long gone). A Wax Iron, Plastic Scraper, a file tool9some of the plastic holding jobbies work well), and some ski vices are the basics to start off with.

 

Base repair isn't that difficult to do at home, it's just time consuming. A repair iron from Tognar, a little Ptex cord and a sanding block is all you need. (and these'll cost the same as 1 repair session at most shops)

 

Carl

[fleblebleb]

Well, I was thinking I'd just do the de-tuning myself, play with that a little bit after figuring out how. Would be cool if I could actually feel the difference They're new skis, just waxed, so no need for the big job.

[mattp]

Thanks, Carl. I've always wondered about this. So I've let my bases dry out and, it seems, and my skis are now a little slower than they would otherwise be. I guess I just don't care that much because I have never noticed this to be a problem. But if anything, I guess, I'd rather have skis that are too slow than too fast for ski mountaineering where I'm not racing anybody but I may be worried about being able to turn tightly enough in a narrow gully, losing it over a cliff, or running into a rock or tree.

[mattp]

Fleb -

You should have just skied the logs. That last one we crossed was the perfectly calibrated anti-tuning device.

[David_Parker]

Actually Matt, your bases can dry up so bad they shrink and you have a concave base (edge high) which makes for catchey edges. Also, in worse case scenario, they can begin to delam. You'll probably be fine if you only wax once a year or at least put the storage coat on for the summer. It is important that the wax is ironed on. The heat changes the molecular structure of your base so it can absorb the wax. Think of it like putting oil in your car, not necessary, but highly recommended!

 

Fleb, If you want to bring your skis to the next pub club we both attend, I'll teach you how to detune them. A finer file is fine, then a stone. I don't suggest experimenting, it is an art. Thing is, once done, you won't need to do it again until someone does your edges on a machine. I never did go for the bevel thing so much. A flat base is important though.

 

I used to race, so I'm just used to having my skis in tip top shape. It's like driving a sports car rather than a truck. Doesn't matter a hell of a lot on soft snow though.

Edited April 28, 2003 by David_Parker

[iain]

a good wax and tuning job definitely improves the handling of a ski. I've heard that you should not detune newer skis with a high degree of sidecut. detuning was for older, narrower skis (but that's just what I've heard). I hot wax about once a month (pretty cheap to do and kind of fun) and do a bit of a tuning job with an edge filer and do the iron/ptex cord bit when I see some good gouges in the base. I don't bother getting an in-shop base repair unless it's to the core or something. ptex and iron are cheap (or you can go even cheaper and get the candle, but those repairs are not quite as durable. Anyone tried waxing and scraping Atomic TMEX/Rex's? what a pain w/ that concave tail.

[mattp]

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I just went down to the basement and checked my old pairs of skis that I have neglected for years and years. To my barbaric eyes, my 1983 Karhu XCD's, my 1987 Karhu Extreme's, and the old downhill boards with the mountaineering bindings on them show no signs of cracked, delaminated, or shrunken ptex. And I'm sure they've each gone without any base wax for literally years at a time. But if you saw me ski, you'd probably conclude that I ski as if I'm driving that old truck rather than the sports car....

[fleblebleb]

Alrighty, for the life of me I can't figure out how sidecut or no sidecut affects the chance of catching an edge. Anyone? Bueller, perhaps?

[Figger_Eight]

I like keeping my skis waxed and tuned so they're more predictable when I ski them, whether it's in the backcountry or in-bounds.

 

 

[iain]

fleblebleb said:

Alrighty, for the life of me I can't figure out how sidecut or no sidecut affects the chance of catching an edge. Anyone? Bueller, perhaps?

 

I've heard this before but can't give a good explanation why. Here's a quote from Tognar Toolworks: "Like Terry Young, ski shop owner and professional tuning guru in Aspen says, "If you want to turn shaped carving skis into fenceposts, tune 'em like old race skis!"

[iain]

"Detuning refers to the subtle massaging of an edge's sharpness or base bevel near tips and tails to intentionally adjust performance of a ski or board. On traditional skis, detuning behind the contact points makes a skis less grabby and "hooky" for easier control. But detuning a shaped ski can be real bad news. It makes the ski more "nervous" due to shortening the effective running surface, plus the skis won't initiate turns as desired due to the decreased radius and running surface."

 

I am not a good enough skier or ski on really good snow to really notice a big difference, but I've definitely noticed catchy edges after beveling

[ski_photomatt]

I have certainly noticed my skis drying out after not waxing them for an extended period of time. One pair did get to the point where it looked like it was beginning to affect the health of the ski, but these were so old and so destroyed, it didn't matter.

 

I take more of a utilitarian approach to ski tuning. Do what is necessary to keep the skis from getting damaged. I'm not looking for super high performance from my skis. If you ski the lifts a lot, then tuning has it's advantages. But I only ski the lifts when there is new snow; when the areas are hard packed I'm in the backcountry. In the spring, if the snow is hard and steep enough to notice dull edges I'll be inclined to (a) crampon down if it is exposed and a fall could lead to a disastrous slide, or (b) survival turn down to softer snow. All skis get abused somewhat. Early season tours. Late spring woods skiing to get back to the car over moss, twigs and other tree droppings. Sticking them on a ski rack and driving to the pass over wet, sanded highways. I concentrate on making sure nothing major is going wrong and leave it at that.

[ExtremoMtDude]

it is critical to have your rides tuned up and of course with the correct wax for the corresponding snow temperature. this could make or break a round in the terrain park.