David_Parker Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I wouldn't be so quick to call Drury falls a sport climb,(especially if you do it in a day). I may have more to say later but only had time for this comment. DPP (with straight shaft x-15's and wool mittens!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayborbon Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 If you ask me it is a lame thread that everybody can sit and boast about how good they are because they climb harder or have done such and such routes. I recently took up ice climbing and like it. I am not good and have no apprenticeship either. I stay on the easy grades and find it quite fun.. Making a first ascent does not make or mark a man\good climber in my eyes. Climbing for fun and inner desires like self accomplishments are my main goals. I agree with and understand some of the reasoning of comments like this: "dozen climbers ignored the fabulously 'in' NE Buttress of Chair" Really looking at the thing as a whole I get the "move over peasant climbers of lesser abilities" mentalility. I personally have not taken laps on Drury, been to Banks Lake Ice, or even Chair Peak in the winter. I have chosen to take my progression at ice in a mellow fashion where I feel comfortable. Let's not forget where we all started.. However, I would like to state that I have seen parties attempt some of these routes mentioned without any ice experience and that is what troubles me. Perhaps I am too careful some might say, but I think not. Got balls? Well, nope I guess not me. But let's not lure inexperienced climbers in to a realm of more serious and dangerous climbing situations. -Ray  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 <deleted> [This message has been edited by mvs (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 DPS, Preach preach preach...blah blah blah additude additude additude. Why do you care about the crowds at the crags, or at Drury Falls? You aren't there...are you? And if all those folks at the sport crags were on your test pieces...would that make you happy? Not everyone can climb at your level...and you can't climb at everyone's level. Accept it, deal with it. People are different, climb for different reasons, at differnet levels. And many climbers don't have balls, they don't need them. We call them women. And many climb harder and higher then you. Spare me. ------------------ Have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 <deleted> sorry, I posted twice [This message has been edited by mvs (edited 01-31-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 message deleted [This message has been edited by mark (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 Wow, some response! I think I pissed everyone off with this one. I think many of you grossly misunderstood the meaning behind the post, and that is the lack of exploratory/adventurous climbing being done in the Cascades. I withdraw my remarks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeadam Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 ############Non Sequitar################## [This message has been edited by mikeadam (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none_dup1 Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Darn it! I missed Dan's opening remarks because I was at the gym training for the South Face of the Tooth, which I hope to climb some day when I'm really honed. Dan: What did you say to get the crowd so worked up? I hate to miss a party!!! John Sharp Bellevue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 Mr Goodtime; I honestly can't really put my finger on what I might have said that pissed everyone off so much. Perhaps it was that I gently suggested that folks might get more enjoyment from climbing by taking a more exploratory approach to climbing in the Cascades. =) BTW, 'Sport Climbing for the New Millenium' is a registered tradmark of Elitist Bastard, LLC, all rights reserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Mikeadam, Would I still say the same thing if it was Mark Twight? God damn right I would.... ------------------ Have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeadam Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 ############Non Sequitar################## [This message has been edited by mikeadam (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 <deleted> [This message has been edited by mvs (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 mike i am upset that i missed it. i guess i'll have to stop running and monitor the board constantly. dan i don't hate you. sounds like everyone is gettin' fired up over a comment. remeber sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. is that still true though? i read some report....never mind. wether you have an elitest attitude or not, dan's ability to get you mad with one comment is pretty strong. we should all sit back and re-evaluate what dan said that really does effect us. sure he might have called most people gapers...but who gives a shit. i don't. we are all gapers. dan, me ,you and that other guy in the corner with the new rope. climb for your own reasons, not matter what you do or enjoy. because in the long run, when i am a 112 yrs old. it don't matter. did i say that yet? it doesn't matter. have fun and be safe jah  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Wow, people are sure ready to pick a fight! I didn't find Dan's post too offensive - maybe I just didn't read into it like others did. My opinion: I don't really care if the trade routes are all crowded with people who don't know to go anywhere else. That's their problem. Who cares if they lack imagination and creativity in route selection, as long as they're happy. Although I guess it does kind of suck when I want to go climb those trade routes. Oh well. Moreover, I don't think dissing others for this lack of "exploratory/adventure" climbing necessarily implies elitism (and I don't know if he was really dissing them - more like just making an observation?). I certainly don't climb at a high technical level, and yet I've been able to find "exploratory/adventure" climbing. And the list of unknown routes I need to go "check out" keeps growing. I guess it comes back to that other "why do you climb" thread. That thread was kind of enlightening - a lot of people have very different reasons why they climb - very different than mine. And that's fine. I rhyme! Phil   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvs Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 <deleted> [This message has been edited by mvs (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayborbon Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Dan?!, By popular demand reconsider putting that back up. -Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Well, I had to completely change my response since I read the original post. Wait, nah I am too tired... [This message has been edited by dane (edited 02-02-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeadam Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 ############Non Sequitar################## [This message has been edited by mikeadam (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Sorry folks- but there are plenty of people out there putting up new lines and repeating others that are seldom done. And they have been doing it before some of you were probably born. Secondly the difference between someone pushing their limit at alpine grade easy and alpine grade hard is nothing. As long as you are having fun and pushing yourself into uncharted situations. If this is climbing a classic local route than fine. People are doing laps on Polar Circus and have been for years. Get off the keyboard go climb and don't spray about it. Enjoy it on your own. Remember if you think you are climbing hard there is always someone that will walk up and solo what just made you cry. Happy Climbing  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBoySimon Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 My daddy must be a real tough "Cascade hardman" too because he climbed a north-side route on Johannesberg with some guy named Bob and an old fart named Jim who supposedly has climbed lots of stuff around here and writes books or something and sells gear to all you big dummies. Me, I'd rather watch a Britney Spears video and eat beef jerky on the couch. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayborbon Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted February 1, 2001 Author Share Posted February 1, 2001 This past weekend I failed on an attempt of a spectacular, rarely climbed, enormous north face. There were several reasons for our failure, underestimating the difficulty and time involved to do the route and my becoming ill were major factors. The intense emotions produced from being extended on a climb have caused me to become introspective. I wondered why such an obvious and easily accessible route never gets climbed. My thoughts were fueled by reports of folks virtually running laps on Drury Falls, the heated discussion over ice climbing ethics at overcrowded ice crags and my experience of a couple of weeks ago when a dozen climbers ignored the fabulously 'in' NE Buttress of Chair, even when their objective North Face route proved to be not in. I am disturbed by the sport climbing mentality that now seems to pervade ice climbing. The mentality that causes folks to follow only shiny lines of bolts on rock also seems to lead ice climbers only to routes popularized by the select guides and web pages. Where is the imagination and sense of adventure that used to run through the ice climbing community? Climbers used to scout out first ascents and rarely climbed gems. The inherent laziness of sport climbing has seeped into ice climbing, I believe, because the same sort of person has now taken up ice climbing. Once, sport climbing was in the spotlight and folks rushed to take up the hip, new activity. No long apprenticeship necessary there, just grab a rope some draws and rack up the big numbers. Now its all about ice and only a substantial monetary investment is required before you too can have the latest ice tools and crampons and virtually self placing ice pro and then are ready for frozen glory. There is no question the latest gear has made ice climbing easier and safer. Just remember the vast majority of you couldn't lead Nemesis, a route first climbed with dropped picks and flexible crampons. Take a page from the book of Dave Moroles. You have just bought space age tools, why are you all doing the same tired routes that were test pieces 15 years ago? Go put those things to good use and put up new routes for the new generation. I know where there is some huge unclimbed ice. Got balls? [This message has been edited by danielpatricksmith (edited 02-01-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Stanley Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 . [This message has been edited by Matt Stanley (edited 01-31-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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