scot'teryx Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 So I post alot of reports on the wta.org website for others to use for beta, they are simple hikes - but nonetheless it is information for others to use. This is what I posted under "fresh reports" "Mount Si - The Alpine Lakes - Nov 22Started kind of early at 730am with a large group for an "appetite builder" hike for T-Day. It has been along time since I took the regular trail since I enjoy the old trail by Little Si much more. It was wet, kinda wet, and really wet the whole time. New blow down within the first mile. Reached the summit at 9am to have a sandwich and head back down. Found a couple of way routes that made the descent much quicker - lots of tree and root belays, but lost a ton of elevation quickly. No visibility, but a good workout. " Now get this! I get this email tonight from an anonymous person:"I am writing with regards to the trip report thatyou posted on November 22, 2001 on the WTA web site. You stated that you found a couple of "way routes"with lots of tree and root belays which made thedecent much quicker. It seems to me that thesatisfaction of completing a hike does not come from taking shortcuts, but from doing the whole thing; inyour case 8 miles round trip. By taking theseshortcuts you are reeking serious havoc on theenvironment. Mt Si is the most popular sub alpinesummit in our state with 40,000 plus users each year. What do you think would happen if 40,000 people cutthe trail each year? Do you think your tree and roothand holds would still exist? Do you think there maybe some trail erosion? We have laws set up to avoidthese circumstances. Mt Si is owned by the DNR andremains in the Mt Si Natural Resources ConservationArea. You can be ticketed and fined for using whatyou call "way routes". It is actually against the lawto be anywhere off a designated trail. Theserestrictions are justified in that the trails werebuilt so they handle high volumes of people, wheresteep hillsides do not. I really hope that you didnot take your whole troop through your "way route", asa "large group" could leave long lasting visibledamage in which other ignorant people might use as a shortcut like you did. If the DNR feels that thesurrounding habitat is becoming damaged they canpermanently close down the trails, and implement lawsto make the area off limits. This is something that Ireally do not want. I'm sure you don't either. Please stay on the trails." I really want to know your thoughts on this subject. I cut a couple of switchbacks on SNOW, and some dirt, but this guy is freakin out! So does he have a lot of nerve? OR do I change my ways and become a born again "Leave no Trace" hiker. ThanksScott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 You are a bad bad boy Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 You are a bad bad boy Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 I don't think he is "freakin out". He wasn't threatening or being irrational... Soounds like he was stating his view point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_johnson Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 I don't think he is "freakin out". He wasn't threatening or being irrational... Sounds like he was stating his view point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 Sometimes climbers become so focused on their own climb and feel so removed from the "day hikers" that we do things that we should not do. We shouldn't cut trail just to save time or effort. Getting off trial is different, if you are getting to or from a route, or exploring a new route. Cutting trial on snow...no problem what so ever. There are many enviro-Nazis out there....screw them. I think this guy was just making his point about protecting an area that sees a LOT of use. Point well taken. I really wouldn't worry about it or him. If you feel you cut when you shouldn't just don't do it next time. It didn't sound to me like you were plowing through the undergrowth like a heard of elephants, so no worry. my 2 cents [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Rodchester ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 Kind of a ridiculous thing to focus on so intensely but, in general, he is right. The whole law/citation BS aside, common sense should tell you that cutting switch backs is detrimental to the hillside, particularly in such a high traffic area. If you were on dirt, that is only because other individuals before you already destroyed the underbrush/growth.As the size of our usergroup grows, the impacts we have on our "playgrounds" is becoming increasingly more visible. One of the simplest things we can do to limit the visible and environmental impact, is all follow the same trail. To use a few examples...Look at the old trail up to Lake Serene. Sure it was fun and perhaps faster to scramble up the hillside, pulling on exposed roots and rock jugs to the lake. But out of the half dozen or so times I did it I never used the same "trail" twice. In the spring and during heavy rains the "trails" were creeks further eroding the hillside creating permanant ditches. The new trail, although a bit overkill, will eliminate the further destruction of the hillside. How about the trail to Givler's Dome? How many options do you have there. Once again, my many visits have produced just as many approach variations. Check out the impact that has had on the fragile hillside. (Far more of an eyesore than any of the bolts in my opinion.) How about the network of trails on the top of the mesa at Frenchman's Coulee? or the climber's "trail" from Blue Lake TH to the ridge below the South Arete?My point is, if there is an established trail, use it. What a lousy reason to further the restrictions at our playgrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyPeaks Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 I think this guy overstated his point a little and got a little preachy. But, I basically agree with him. You shouldn't have cut those switchbacks, especially on a trail as heavily used as Si. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 Sorry Mr. Easy, just trying to put off doing something productive. [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: slaphappy ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 But, did you rerally cut any switchbacks? There are trails all over Si, and taking a "way trail",is to me is not really cutting a switch back, as long as it diverges from the main trail an appropriate distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Scott, While I detest the "environmental extremists", and this guy who repremanded you is probably one of them, not cutting switchbacks is very "101"...you just don't do it. Regarding the WTA....they are not, as their name implies a "trails" organization. They have of late become just another environmental group. A TRAILS organization would not support locking hikers out of The Middle Fork of the Snoqualmie by lobbying to shut down the road. Additionally, reports they feel are "inappropriate" are censored by their webmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Scott, While I detest the "environmental extremists", and this guy who repremanded you is probably one of them, not cutting switchbacks is very "101"...you just don't do it. Regarding the WTA....they are not, as their name implies a "trails" organization. They have of late become just another environmental group. A TRAILS organization would not support locking hikers out of The Middle Fork of the Snoqualmie by lobbying to shut down the road. Additionally, reports they feel are "inappropriate" are censored by their webmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Yeah and it's generaly not a good idea to belay off of tree roots either, especialy on extreme day hikes at Mt. Si with plastic boots. Never underestimate the dangers of a "way route" while using tree root belays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Scott, The guy that wrote the email may have been the old guy you see up there pounding down the rocks on the trail, or sometimes he prys rocks out with a screwdriver to make the trail "smoother". He always cringes when JERRY marches by in his plastics. I have taken several of the way trails....they are all over, and go far away from the main trail, a guy that I hike with sometimes has shown me them. He has been there over 2000 times. I don't like it when people cut the switchbacks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 What the hell is a "way route" or "way trail" and did anyone smoke any dope on the summit or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Just use your ice tools on designated trees only I mean I do understand where he is coming from but he is a little ridiculous to be sending that sort of mail to someone. I would have sent a harsh "I will kill you" mail back and forgot about it. I think last year I hiked that trail over 40 times and I dont recall ever taking shortcuts but never did I say anything to someone that did. Scott perhaps the tree hugger has his priorities wrong and you should send my "I will kill you" mail and post his response By the way ask him if he smokes weed in the Muir hut? [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Clarke Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 I should get a penalty for piling on. Scott Scott Scott..sheesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 quote: Originally posted by haireball: I absolve you from your sins in the name of the leader, and of the follower, and of the holy belayer. For your penance, write 1000 times "thou shalt not cut switchbacks". Take the list to your local copy shop and have it enlarged so that you have 1000 legible signs, then take the signs and distribute them to appropriate points along the Mt. Si trail. Then go your way and sin no more... Are you really Pope, or just a priest? If so drink the sacremental wine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haireball Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 neither pope nor priest, I am father-confessor to many... and its sacrAmental, dimbulb, din't those nuns teach you nuthin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Cutting switchbacks sucks! quote: Originally posted by slaphappy: ... How about the trail to Givler's Dome? ... How about the network of trails on the top of the mesa at Frenchman's Coulee? or the climber's "trail" from Blue Lake TH to the ridge below the South Arete?My point is, if there is an established trail, use it. What a lousy reason to further the restrictions at our playgrounds. Totally agree! Run the whole trail carc to car in 2 hours then brag about it. Top of the mesa at FC - screwed up, How hard is it to use the trgular trail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haireball Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 I absolve you from your sins in the name of the leader, and of the follower, and of the holy belayer. For your penance, write 1000 times "thou shalt not cut switchbacks". Take the list to your local copy shop and have it enlarged so that you have 1000 legible signs, then take the signs and distribute them to appropriate points along the Mt. Si trail. Then go your way and sin no more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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