fern Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Those of you who go around insulting mounties may not realize how many of us are on cc.com too I think we have a pretty good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 mattp said: And I certainly wouldn't expect anybody to announce, in advance, that they are going to be at such and such a crag with 25 of their moron friends -- at least not on this bulletin board... Uhhh, what about last fall's rope-a-dope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Also, do you want these people out there *without* any instruction? I think that would be a lot worse... Mounties, Mazamas, etc give people a way to (relatively) safely try out the sport. I'd much rather have them do that then get some crampons and an axe and do Rainier. (I would say Hood, but people already do that and get themselves or others killed ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: Also, do you want these people out there *without* any instruction? I think that would be a lot worse... Mounties, Mazamas, etc give people a way to (relatively) safely try out the sport. I'd much rather have them do that then get some crampons and an axe and do Rainier. (I would say Hood, but people already do that and get themselves or others killed ) Bullshit. I never learned how to climb by taking a class. Much is common sense, and books will take you a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 i am self taught. so are all my main climbing partners. we are safe and yet still some of us push the limits of the sport. it can be approached from many directions. the mounties and what not is just another way to get in with less commitment. you can teach anything, but the students need to want to learn. have fun everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Sphinx said: Ursa_Eagle said: Also, do you want these people out there *without* any instruction? I think that would be a lot worse... Mounties, Mazamas, etc give people a way to (relatively) safely try out the sport. I'd much rather have them do that then get some crampons and an axe and do Rainier. (I would say Hood, but people already do that and get themselves or others killed ) Bullshit. I never learned how to climb by taking a class. Much is common sense, and books will take you a long way. What are you calling bullshit on? Seems to me Ursa is saying that going with the Mazamas or Mounties is a safe alternative to learning on your own. I think its a valid point. I am self-taught as well. So what? Does that preclude the choice of going with formal instruction for others? I think not. Thankfully we live in a world where one can make choices for themselves. I think I will choose to have another beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: Also, do you want these people out there *without* any instruction? I am "without instruction" and consider myself a safe climber. My point is that you can learn to climb safely (if not more safely) on your own. It doesn't take a huge group and some pompous instructors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 damn, rbw. It's early, and it's only Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Sphinx said: Bullshit. I never learned how to climb by taking a class. Much is common sense, and books will take you a long way. Look at the ones that take the classes and think that some of them would prolly be out there without instruction if they couldn't get it. That's a frightning thought. I'm not saying that you can't self-teach, I'm just saying that not everyone can self-teach. Since when has the general population actually been thinking and using common sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Please, call me Rob. Its 5 somewhere in the world, and probably a holiday of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: Sphinx said: Bullshit. I never learned how to climb by taking a class. Much is common sense, and books will take you a long way. Look at the ones that take the classes and think that some of them would prolly be out there without instruction if they couldn't get it. That's a frightning thought. I'm not saying that you can't self-teach, I'm just saying that not everyone can self-teach. Since when has the general population actually been thinking and using common sense? Without common sense you won't last long in climbing. I always figure if people won't (can't?) take the time and effort to teach themselves, then they won't be very safe climbers even if they DO take a class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Oh, and BTW, I was at Smith once, near a very annoying large class. One of the students led a nice 5.7, belayed by another student. At the top, the leader set up some sort of an anchor (two bolts w/chains at the top, this was sport), then yelled down to his belayer: "Do you think this anchor is OK?". His buddy shouted up "I think so. Why don't you rappel and we'll ask the instructor!". Quite a safe way to learn climbing, huh? I moved on, not wanting to have to carry them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 i think safety is not the only issue that is addressed. most people need basic instruction to even get themselves started. sphinx how did you get started then?? lets hear your tale of heroics and apat learning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 He and Lummox sent all those FA's and made all those cover shots for the mags back in the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Sphinx said: I always figure if people won't (can't?) take the time and effort to teach themselves, then they won't be very safe climbers even if they DO take a class. So you're saying that anyone who has ever taken a class is not very safe? Bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountie Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I certainly wouldn't expect anybody to announce, in advance, that they are going to be at such and such a crag with 25 of their moron friends -- at least not on this bulletin board -- because they'll catch nothing but flack for it. So fair warning, The Everett Mountaineers will run their Rock 2 field trip the weekend of April 26 and 27. We do understand the impact we have and are doing what we can to minimize it. Advanced warning is part of that plan, and I'll provide a reminder via a separate thread a few days prior with the specific climbing areas we plan to be at. Some of our more overzealous station leaders are being "talked to" If you want an adjacent route or one that we are not using, we will yield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Mountie said: I certainly wouldn't expect anybody to announce, in advance, that they are going to be at such and such a crag with 25 of their moron friends -- at least not on this bulletin board -- because they'll catch nothing but flack for it. So fair warning, The Everett Mountaineers will run their Rock 2 field trip the weekend of April 26 and 27. We do understand the impact we have and are doing what we can to minimize it. Advanced warning is part of that plan, and I'll provide a reminder via a separate thread a few days prior with the specific climbing areas we plan to be at. Some of our more overzealous station leaders are being "talked to" If you want an adjacent route or one that we are not using, we will yield. dont forget the trash pick up... my biggest gripe with your organizations outtings is the amount of trash generated anf left. last year we picked up a plastic grocery bags worth of it at the base of the mtneers dome. i notified steve of it last year. this year if i see it i will be picking it up, photogrpahing you and informing the rangers of your ill attempts and following thru with your misson statement. do not debate me on this. also the amount of obtrusive red webbing left on formations. i will remove it all and turn it in. dont leave webbing! ever! clean your anchors!!!!! thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 erik said: do not debate me on this. Gosh. POSTS WILL BE DELETED IF YOU DISOBEY ERIK!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!! SEMANTICS OR DIE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalius Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Attitude said: erik said: do not debate me on this. Gosh. POSTS WILL BE DELETED IF YOU DISOBEY ERIK!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!! ASSIMILATE OR DIE!!!! hardly attitude. i say this as there is no point to debate. last year i got an email from one of them stating it was not them. well we cleaned it up as they were leaving, they were there all day. that is my point. debating on who leaves the trash is pointless, the issue that needs to be addressed is picking it up. even if it is not yours, pick it up. easy enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 erik said: i will remove it all and turn it in. dont leave webbing! ever! clean your anchors!!!!! And crowbar those hideous bolts, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Attitude said: erik said: i will remove it all and turn it in. dont leave webbing! ever! clean your anchors!!!!! And crowbar those hideous bolts, too. you do seem to be the semantics master dont you!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Well said Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I can't speak for anybody else, but I generally try to pick up my share of trash and then some... I've been involved with the Everett Mountaineers for several years. On the outings I've gone on, we've been extremely contientious (almost to the point of being anal) about picking up after ourselves. If there is a problem and you do snap a picture (or capture the name scrawled upon the helmet,) let me know and I'll take care of that problem personally. Litter sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 with duct tape on helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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