Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
MtnGoat

Report: U.S. Finds Missiles with Chemical Weapons

Recommended Posts

"MtnGoat, it was only a little while ago you were beating the "threat" drum. Now its liberation. "

 

The threat drum was the driving force, liberation is a welcome side effect. The threat of Iraqui is nearly gone, the liberation is a bonus.

 

"You used to believe in the power of the market, but now you're in favor of force as the foundation of foreign policy."

 

The power of the market only applies in situations where law is stable and people are free. Where they are not, the application of force in support of proper principles is needed. Force does not define these principles, right and wrong does.

 

"Your principles keep shifting to suit your needs, just like the ends you use to justify your means keep shifting to whatever you think plays well to the world."

 

Your misunderstanding of my principles does not mean I am shifting them, it merely means you misunderstand them.

 

Edited by MtnGoat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, that would be you? rolleyes.gif Go back, edit your post so that mememe... is not all one word, so it doesn't stretch the frame all out like you wearing your ex-wife's overalls. hahaha.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It felt good to see images of happy people in Iraq. I'm sure many there are pleased to see S.H. gone. But what else would you do as an Iraqi citizen? Stand and fight against an overwhelming force such as the US military, where what's left of your own military is cowering away, or start kissing USA ass and tearing down statues? Blatently working the P.R. of this war to present it as some perverted form of manifest destiny is both obvious and a disgrace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MtnGoat said:

The threat drum was the driving force, liberation is a welcome side effect. The threat of Iraqui is nearly gone, the liberation is a bonus.

 

Then why are you entitled to take credit for unintended benefits? Like saying "hey, I just wanted to shoot the dirty hippy, but isn't it great that he can't beat his wife now?" If you take an illegal action, an unintended happy outcome does not justify the action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vegetablebelay said:

Cynical. What an ugly world you guys live in. hellno3d.gif

I thought the driving force behind this war was that everyone was out to get us? That's a pretty ugly world too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said Off-White. Methinks MtnGoatCheese makes no sense and keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.

 

yelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gifyelrotflmao.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trask said:

Who's the asshole that screwed up the font?

 

 

'tis cause you used a run on word like

 

memememeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

 

 

that expanded width of page rolleyes.gif

 

 

silly moderators!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Blatently working the P.R. of this war to present it as some perverted form of manifest destiny is both obvious and a disgrace."

 

Yeah, there's no chance Iraquis are glad to be free of someone who slaughters whole families in front of each other, rapes people with official rapists, beheads women on the streets, feeds people to plastic shredders and jails children. They figure we're just the same so they dance in the streets. Makes sense.

 

And the refugees and exiles here in the US, are dancing around because they prefer Saddam, after all they left Iraq because they loved him so much, and suddenly they need to kiss US ass under threat too. Yup, makes sense!

 

There are some folks who simply cannot accept that sometimes good things happen, and sometimes even people they don't like, make them happen.

 

And they complain about the marginalization of their points of view, without even realizing they marginalize *themselves* by their choice of stances.

 

 

Edited by MtnGoat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Then why are you entitled to take credit for unintended benefits?"

 

Because they occurred as a direct result of our actions. Besides, I said it was a nice side benefit, I never said it was inunintended. The intention was A) remove the threat, B) get rid of Saddam and free Iraq. That the primary is tied in with the secondary doesn't mean we don't get credit for both. No matter how uncomfortable it makes some folks. cool.gif

 

"If you take an illegal action, an unintended happy outcome does not justify the action."

 

We did not take an illegal action. We are within our rights to take action to defend the US, and the violation of the ceasefire terms for 12 years means we've been at war the entire time. Now we finish it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I thought the driving force behind this war was that everyone was out to get us? That's a pretty ugly world too. "

 

No, that's the left's interpretation of the need to deal with some regimes in a position to help an outfit that actually is out to get us.

 

When the left are claims someone elses view is that everyone is out to get us, it does not mean anyone but the left is claiming it that. They're inventing positions for someone else and then basing opposition on that, as you are.

 

 

Edited by MtnGoat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MtnGoat said:

No, that's the left's interpretation of the need to deal with some regimes in a position to help an outfit that actually is out to get us. When the left are claims someone elses view is...

They're inventing positions for someone else and then basing opposition on that, as you are.

Not only is that broken english, it is also remarkably hypocritical. You are in fact dishing out exactly that which you complain about, in the same post. You are fabricating positions and motivations of other people. You throw away peoples' opinions with "they just can't accept anything good can happen from people they don't like"? That's pretty damn simplistic, not to mention completely inaccurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MtnGoat said:We did not take an illegal action. We are within our rights to take action to defend the US, and the violation of the ceasefire terms for 12 years means we've been at war the entire time. Now we finish it.

 

 

Under this reasoning, the North Koreans, with whom we only have a ceasefire agreement, not a peace treaty, are fully in their rights to nuke the US because we certainly pose a threat to them. Or vice versa I suppose, we should absolutely invade immediatedly. My country becomes Travis Bickle, what a revolting thought. (for those who don't know, Travis was the DeNiro character in Taxi Driver).

 

Your assertion that Iraq posed a threat to the US is bogus. If you honestly believe that, its a point of disagreement we cannot move beyond. Now that things are winding down, I think its interesting that you trumpet about freedom for the Iraqi people, rather than this great threat that we have averted through pre-emptive war. Please re-read my earlier post regarding reasons for this war, which you did not respond to in any meaningful way. This war is about advancing the neoconservative's ambitions for US world empire, and ALL that other crap is just so much advertising campaign. Pleasant side benefits and your pythonesque "no it isn't" assertions do not justify this illegal action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the refugees and exiles here in the US, are dancing around because they prefer Saddam, after all they left Iraq because they loved him so much, and suddenly they need to kiss US ass under threat too. Yup, makes sense!

 

I suspect he forgot that in your world, people are either for Saddam or for us. I suggest you try to have the meaning of the expression "not for us" changed permanently to "for Saddam", it'll make things much easier for you. Who knows, Webster and Oxford dict. might go for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now of course they'll all say they didn't support Saddam

 

not only we didn't support Saddam, but consistently so for 25 years. it's not like we suddenly discovered our dislike for him a decade ago after arming him and closing our eyes to atrocities because it was in our strategic interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Off_White said:

pythonesque "no it isn't" assertions

That is exactly the adjective for which I was grasping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, who put Sadam in power in the first place. Opps - that would be the US CIA. Ancient history I guess - we'll get it right this time. Looks like we're off to a stelar start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim said:

Hey, who put Sadam in power in the first place. Opps - that would be the US CIA. Ancient history I guess - we'll get it right this time. Looks like we're off to a stelar start.

 

Yes the CIA and GOVT have been diong similar things like this for over 100 years. Maybe it was Carter's administration. There was no way to tell this was giong to be the outcome back then. It's really just a weak argument for the anti war people to justify some of their political views and blunders.

 

We win with BIG FUCKING TANKS! bigdrink.giffruit.gifhahaha.gif

 

Fuck all the anti war protestors. What a bunch of tools wazzup.gifcry.gifthe_finger.gifboxing_smiley.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cpt.Caveman said:

Jim said:

Hey, who put Sadam in power in the first place. Opps - that would be the US CIA. Ancient history I guess - we'll get it right this time. Looks like we're off to a stelar start.

 

Yes the CIA and GOVT have been diong similar things like this for over 100 years. Maybe it was Carter's administration. There was no way to tell this was giong to be the outcome back then. It's really just a weak argument for the anti war people to justify some of their political views and blunders.

 

But this is what we ALWAYS say. We screwed up the population last time (Iran, Iraq, Columbia, Chile, etc. etc.) but we'll get it right this time. We didn't intend the dictator we put in place to develop death squads and squash the democratic movement that was there. It was merely an "unitended consequence". What a joke!

It's collective memory loss. Think how much Iraq would have been without the CIA putting in Saddam in the first place. Oh, but we'll clean up our mess and spend about $500 billion in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cpt.Caveman said:

We win with BIG FUCKING TANKS! bigdrink.giffruit.gifhahaha.gif

 

Fuck all the anti war protestors. What a bunch of tools wazzup.gifcry.gifthe_finger.gifboxing_smiley.gif

 

Is that the best you can come up with? If that's the case then you're a fucking tool you fucking tool. HCL.gif and i'm no better for being suckered into name calling smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×