Miloshk_Antonopov Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 i am often using creatine in training to help with hydrating and building musles. i am also now thinking that it would be useful to be using creatine before long climbs and trips as it will have more water in musle and prevent dehydration faster? i am thinking this or that it will be creating more need for water while climbing on a long climb and in that case it will be bad to use for grades five and six? who will now the answer to my question? +milosh k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 From here: http://www.onu.edu/pharmacy/DrugInfo/herbals/creatine.html Creatine has recently been shown to increase body mass by the probable mechanism of uptake of water into the muscle which provides bulk. This effect has been seen as beneficial to weightlifters because it allows them to put on weight, which is one of their main goals. (5) The difference between highly-trained athletes and lower-trained athletes is a question of debate. Creatine supplementation shows a sharp rise in total creatine in a lower-trained athlete, where as there is no significant change in the total creatine level in an athlete with higher than normal levels because of the individual’s training. (2) In studies with well-trained athletes, there has been no significant gains by creatine supplementation on weight lifting or sprinting. Actually, in some highly-trained sprinters, their sprint times were slower when taking creatine because of the slight increase in bulk due to muscle uptake of water from the creatine. (5) Long term effects of creatine supplementation have not been documented in any study, which is subject for precaution until a long term study can produce some lasting results. In conclusion, the use of creatine is still the subject of debate because of inconclusive scientific results of any beneficial strength increases. In a moderately active subject, there could be benficial increases of total creatine levels, but as the athlete trains more, there will be minimal if any further gains in this level. (5) A bodybuilder would see some muscle building because of the muscle uptake of water. However, in regard to an increase in strength, there is no scientific proof of any gains. There could be some decrease in ammonia production, but not lactate production. (2) Further, there has not been any significant adverse effects documented, but long term trials have not been established. If the bodybuilder wants to build bulk, creatine could help. Unless an individual makes a serious effort to increase strength by hard work, that person will not see gains, even with the use of creatine. Short term gains, at most, is what can be expected from creatine use. It is not in the individual’s best interests, physically or financially, to use creatine over long periods of time. (5) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 If not hydrated very well, creatine suplementation can cause cramping in muscles. I know this from personal experience (mild) and have had lifting friends get this quite bad unless they are drinking a lot of water. Just an FYI... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURP Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 hey ruski, your picture looks like that guy off of that British movie a few years ago called "Lock stock and Barrel". A LOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtenay Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Ditto JoshK's experience -- I've seen someone on creatine suffer severe quad cramping coming down Mt. St. Helens one week, then a few weeks later, having changed nothing in his routine but cessation of taking creatine, having no problems whatsoever with cramping. That's not to say that ALL people using creatine will have trouble with endurance events, but I certainly don't recommend it to alpine climbers with lots of endurance -- now, crag, rock or sport climbing may be a different story completely... IF you choose to use creatine, be aware that some of the initial gains will be retention of water, AND be sure to load it properly -- consider taking it with grape juice, which has a high glycemic index and will "send the creatine directly into the muscles" (for lack of a clearer way of explaining what happens.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 "Performance-enhancing drugs and climbing" AAJ 2001, p163-167, this has a bunch of references at the end. There was also an article in either R&I or Climbing about a year back on Creatine, but I can't find the issue. The picture is Vinny Jones, Actor (Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels) and Soccer player (Wimbldon, defenser) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Why Creatine? I can't think of any part of the climbing game where you want lots of muscle mass. The stongest snow sloggers on the planet are small. J.C. Lafaille 5'2 120 Avg sherpa size 5'5ish 150 As for rock, ice, aid, mixed, extreme ski, and bouldering many of the best are even lighter than the above mentioned! Just my two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 From memory the article I found pretty much said the same thing, it could be considered "aid" and is of debatable worth for most forms of climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I dont think protein would hinder any climbing that is taken in with a drink, which is common for creatine drinks. To claim it as aid is like claiming gu is aid. It will not make you excessively bulky if you train properly. Some geeks here just dont know a thing about bulking up it seems. I'd take creatine drinks without a worry in a perfect\proper environment. As for hydration needs I doubt there are as many as for a protein steak..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Larson Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 If ya want a AID try ULTIMATE ORANGE it is in a powder form and will definetly put some lead in yer pencil .Keep in mind however it is banned by the IOC and just about any athletic organization . But the shit does work ...INSTANTLY be careful though it is strong . It also can be bought at any Supplement store. I am sure Courtney can probably tell us why not to take it .I stopped long time ago but for example .I was so jacked up I Immediatly added close to 200 lbs to my leg presses and was doing twice the reps . Getting the idea Oh yeah stretch real good before you start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Dan_Larson said: If ya want a AID try ULTIMATE ORANGE it is in a powder form and will definetly put some lead in yer pencil .Keep in mind however it is banned by the IOC and just about any athletic organization . But the shit does work ...INSTANTLY be careful though it is strong . It also can be bought at any Supplement store. I am sure Courtney can probably tell us why not to take it .I stopped long time ago but for example .I was so jacked up I Immediatly added close to 200 lbs to my leg presses and was doing twice the reps . Getting the idea Oh yeah stretch real good before you start I've used that stuff before. It's pretty intense. It'll put some pep in your step for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Hey doesn't that Ultimate Orange stuff have ephedra in it? Like putting crack in your Orange Julius. I've used creatine from time to time. You gain a few pounds in water, I found I was more subject to headaches then normal (normal being never). In the nutrition book I'm reading right now (which was just published), they say that creatine has been the most studied supplement and really the only one were it has been conclusively found to be benificial without any severe long term side effects. Creatine doesn't make you bigger, lifting heavy weights makes you bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Hey doesn't that Ultimate Orange stuff have ephedra in it? Like putting crack in your Orange Julius. Yeah I think it did but not sure. It's definitely something that will have you doing cheetah flips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miloshk_Antonopov Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 thank you for many interesting answer to questions here. i am interesdt in creatine for purpose of increasing water in musle to aid in recovery on climbs of great length however it seems this is not to be effective in the alpine environment! primary interest of mine was to increase water capacity for long day climbs of great difficulty where water is not often available to have or carry not to increase bulk greatly as this is contrary to a climbers goal as we all know. i am also not sayinhg that bulk is not good for a climber as well as strength is importatn but un needed wait can be difficult on difficult climbs. i am often using ULTIMATE OROUNGE in training at this time. the picture i have chosen is from lock stock and from my favorite movie also! cheers to football players and climber heroes everywhere milosh k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDoolittle Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Wasn't Milosh the name of that tennis pro on Seinfeld that turned out to be a total wanker fake? Always thought it sounded more Czech than Russian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Larson Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Post deleted by Courtenay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I think creatine gave me chest pains once. So I stopped taking it. Didn't seem to do much anyways. I took a drink called Super Ripped or something like that once. I never got tired. Never. Ephedra, caffeine, taurine, carnitine. Can't say I really lifted any harder because of it though. I get pretty psyched sans additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Dan_Larson said: If ya want a AID try ULTIMATE ORANGE it is in a powder form and will definetly put some lead in yer pencil .Keep in mind however it is banned by the IOC and just about any athletic organization . But the shit does work ...INSTANTLY be careful though it is strong . It also can be bought at any Supplement store. I am sure Courtney can probably tell us why not to take it .I stopped long time ago but for example .I was so jacked up I Immediatly added close to 200 lbs to my leg presses and was doing twice the reps . Getting the idea Oh yeah stretch real good before you start Be really careful with ultimate orange. I used to put in my thermos at the sport crag. It gave me big time heart pressure. I also once slammed a major dose before strapping my skis to my pack for a jaunt up to muir. My heart was racing and it did weird stuff to my chest. I think the stuff could really be dangerous if mixed with let's say a morning cup of coffee. I threw my ultimate orange out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Larson Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Just in case anyone is thinking of taking the orange CRAP . I WAS JUST KIDDING WHILE SUGGESTING IT AS AN AID . It can't be good for you.However I am surprised that some of you have tried it, well Cavey probably liked it . You are supposed to mix it with water however not snort it through a straw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 However I am surprised that some of you have tried it, well Cavey probably liked it . I bet you tried drinking whisky before I think it's crap too. But in my younger days I think it was ok for the 15 or 20 times I used it. I prefer coffee nowadays over anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Larson Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Post deleted by Courtenay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabertooth Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Dan_Larson said: Just in case anyone is thinking of taking the orange CRAP . I WAS JUST KIDDING WHILE SUGGESTING IT AS AN AID . It can't be good for you. It seems that Next Proteins has discontinuing Ultimate Orange. Since it was one of their best selling products, there has to be a good reason behind it. Lawsuits perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I believe I hard that the FDA is moving towards banning all products containing Ma Huang/Ephedra as there have been so many deaths from them. Not sure if that applies to this Agent Orange stuff or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtenay Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 <<I am sure Courtenay can probably tell us why not to take it >> Like you guys really listen to me! I could tell you why I PERSONALLY wouldn't take it, but you can (and will) do whatever you choose! I've had a reaction to norepinephrine at the dentist that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but there are those people out there who would take a shot of it any time, any place for the instantaneous boost to the ol' ticker. Same with anything containing ephedra. Not for me, thanks. I will simply say, the more you can learn about what you're putting in your body, the better a decision you can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Larson Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 See your not a big Dice Clay Fan courtney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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