Krakauer: Good or Bad?

[Rodchester]

Ok I have a question....in another thread on ice climbing I picked up a very distinct additude towards Krakauer.

So what is the big problem?

So he writes about climbing and the outdoors and makes solid cash doing it. He is a damn good writer, FAR better than most climbers. He is a good climber too.

Do we rip on other climbers who can't on sight a 5.13c sporto route, or dig on a aid climber for not doing a route with five hook moves in a row, or tear into a alpine guy who won't lead a 5.11 grade IV?

Why rip on Jon K?

Is it that he somehow "sold out"? or what?

Sure the whole 1996 Everest thing between him and Anatoli stirred up some personal feelings for some close to the situation, but did he really say or write anything that outrageous?

They had different views...so does that mean we rip on Jon K?

Just looking for opinions and trying to get why people say things about Krakauer.

[freeclimb9]

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

[rr666]

 

I don't know why you call Kraukauer a damn good writer. I do agree, he is not a bad writer, but is far from being damn good.

The reason I am not fond of him is his ego. In his Everest retelling he consistently wrote as if he knew more than the guides, and was the stud of the group. Yes hind-sight is 20-20, but don't write like you knew it at the time.

Most of the other stuff I see from him always show him as the hero, know-it-all. That sh*t jsut annoys me.

Now some of his new stuff may be different, I haven't read much of his stuff recently, but I am defintely not going to go out of my way to read it either...

[sexual_chocolate]

Ummm....Could it be....

Satan? (Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins, no?)

[lizard_brain]

He's a good writer. I read "Into the Wild" before I knew much about him as a climber and before the events on Everest. Sold out? Re-read the preface. You think that writers should only stick to non-controversial topics? Maybe Krakauer should have kept his nose out and left the telling of the story to Newsweek or some other "objective" source?

Krakauer: Good or Bad? Depends on what you mean. As a writer? Good. As a person? Who cares.

[This message has been edited by lizard brain (edited 10-17-2001).]

[Bob_Clarke]

Calling Jon egotistical is ridiculous. Go up and ask for any new route ideas or beta on any of his first ascents or other climbs he's accomplished and you'll be rewarded with a kind response and a gentle soul.

Public personality does not equal what's inside a person. And as in business or any medium, it's easier to throw darts than to create the target.

[hikerwa]

I was in a band for several years struggling to make a living at it. I used to think that "Sold Out" was a bad thing, but I think that being "sold out" means being successful in the mainstream. I would have sold out in a minute if I could make my living doing the things that I love. I'm not real fond of Jon as a person, but I have to respect him for being successful..

Sean

[sexual_chocolate]

Actually, that was lame on my part. I just ran with an initial, un-thought out response. My apologies.

I read Into the Wild, or what ever it was called, and if I remember right, it was really too emotively portentious. The whole book rested on something quite awkward and mechanical.

But I also remember his writing to be solid, like perhaps the writing of someone who built concrete irrigation ditches for a living. Or the basements of department stores. NOT wigwams or yurts. Definitely something from concrete and perhaps rebar.

He is not a gardener, this I can tell.

He is someone who used his hands to make a living, at some point in their lives. Or at least read about it. Is this true? Was he a construction-worker at one time? Or did he read about it?

 

Does anyone here know if Jon Krakauer has ever read any books or how-to manuals on concrete construction theory? LET US KNOW.

 

 

[hollyclimber]

mr chocolate-

Are you just joking around?

In case not, from what I remember JK spent some time doing construction and/or carpentry to pay the bills.

I thought into the Wild was a horrible book. It was my "workout book" a few years ago and even the torture and boredom of the cardio machines couldn't get me to finish the last chapter or so. But, I like everything else of his that I have read.

I have never talked to the dude, and I have zero opinion on him.

[Dru]

I put Jon Krakauer in the Outside School of Journalism with guys like Tim Cahill that can't write three sentences without mentioning themselves. You notice they don't ever write "The landscape was beautiful and desolate", they write "I saw the landscape as beautiful and desolate." Unending me me me me me all thru every book.

[willstrickland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Me:

The reason I am not fond of him is his ego. In his Everest retelling he consistently wrote as if he knew more than the guides, and was the stud of the group.

---

Consider the circumstances. The assignment he was on was to cover the commercial guiding activity that was surging in popularity. That required an objective, stand back kind of view of the guides, leaders,and other team members. To assess them requires a certain cold and aloof perspective.

Also consider the background of the teams. Kraukauer was a self-driven climber at one time in his life and had probably 20 years of experience behind him...compared to most of the clients he was a climbing stud. (But how can you really think you're a hot-shot when Pete Shoening is walking around?)

[Dan_Petersen]

I think Krakauer is a journalist. Not a bad one. I am unhappy with the business of journalism, so he gets tainted. Maybe I'm unhappy with climbing journalism because it says something about me that I don't like. Maybe I am simply craving sensation and the next greatest toy. Maybe the game is no different than golf, with all its slick magazines and hardware. Now that I am good and mad at myself, I'll take it out on Krakauer, who's just making a living, like Lacitis at the Times.

Jon is part of the big marketing engine we fuel. It's good that he is making better money writing than he did building houses, and I am sure that in person he's a decent guy. I would guess he is not the same good guy he was before his writing success, but probably still a good guy. His writing isn't anything special, but he's chosen subjects I'm somewhat interested in. I read it like I read newspapers, for information to be taken at less than face value.

[sexual_chocolate]

hollyclimber. thanks for the info. I was kind of joking, but I really did feel what I wrote. Why didn't you like Into the Wild?

And DRU, it seems as though your example has more to do with philosophy than with the rantings of an egomaniac. "It was" vs "I saw it as" seems like the difference between someone who "knows what's what" and someone who is careful about asserting an objective reality. After all, what is beautiful?

[This message has been edited by sexual chocolate (edited 10-17-2001).]

[Wopper]

I briefly met JK at a slide show Alex Lowe put on a few years ago. I found JK to be a humble guy who did not seem to be real comfortable when put in the spotlight. As for his writings, I found Into the Wild to be an interesting story that he pieced together well. It has been a few years since reading Into Thin Air, but if memory serves me well it was an interesting story. Like all controversies, there are many sides to the story. He was merely recounting the facts as he saw them or understood them. I don't think there is any harm in that. We all have opinions and not everyone is going to agree with them. For the record, I did not like Eiger Dreams, I found most of the stories to be boring and monontonous.

[rr666]

 

I have not met Krakauer, so I am not one to say how he is personally, all I have to base him on is his public personality. And most of what it is, is Krakauer-centric. So I do not know if it is his job as a journalist to talk about himself. If it is, he is doing a great job.

Also, I do not see anything wrong with someone making a buck writing about climbing or anything else. It is not wrong to want some cash to buy stuff. If i was talented enough to write and make money, I probably would. But if the writing comes across as egotistical, I am not going to read it.

 

I agree with Holly, Into the Wild was a tough book to read. I was very into the story, but found that the book jumped around quite a bit and was hard to follow after awhile. It really did not flow. Yes, it could be because of lack of information, because no one really knew what happened... After about half of the book, I just started skimming, catching the interesting parts and skipping the rest.

[Jason_Martin]

The idea that a writer would go through the experiences through which this man went and then not write about it is ludicrous. A writer writes. And when the shit hits the fan writers tend to write about the shit.

I think many people are down on JK because of the fact that his book concerning the events on Everest was so well received. One could argue that this book was perhaps the most well received book with the non-climbing public in recent memory.

The book that stands out as being a "bestseller" in the outdoor market prior to "Into Thin Air" is Joe Simpson's "Touching the Void." Joe tells his story in much the same way as Jon told his. In both books there is a ton of hindsight, a lot of "I should have" in the subtext of the stories... And in both first person accounts the authors use the word "I" when talking about their perceptions. This is okay in this kind of writing.

Jon is not the devil. He is not bringing down the outdoor experience with his books. No he's just a writer who accidently caught a bit of lightning in a bottle. And you know what? That's a good thing.

If you don't like him, don't read him. If you don't like his stuff, don't read it. But to sit back and badmouth someone whom you don't personally know... Someone who has been a local climber on and off for many years... That seems rather immature.

[hollyclimber]

I think Me and I were reading the same book...

Into the wild had an interesting short story as its base. I thought JK tried to hard to stretch it out. Not only did it jump around, but some of things it jumped around too weren't that interesting or relevant to the story. The writing itself did not seem to be of the quality of Into Thin Air, or the other short stories I have read. From what I remember (its been about 4 years since I read it) I really like Eiger Dreams.

Anyway, I am no book critic, and we all enjoy different types of writing. I used to be really into reading climbing adventure stories after I read Into Thin Air when it first came out. I think Touching the Void is the best book of that genre that I have ever read.

hgb

[mikeadam]

You have to admit that the whole Devils Thumb story was a hellava good read. I'm sure JK had a great adventure and writing about it and other experiences was initially a way to extend his own experience.

What I'm trying to interject is that maybe he writes for himself as much as he writes for money? I've noticed that when you start putting writings out in front of people they tend to feel empowered to critic you. For every email of praise he probably receives one that is harsh. Jealousy perhaps?

I've never met him. Someday I'd like to, and I'll be sure to tell him I have enjoyed several of his books (Eiger Dreams). That is after he buys me coffee in payback for buying "Into the Wild" which I found to be grossly overrated by the book critics.

 

[This message has been edited by mikeadam (edited 10-17-2001).]

[hollyclimber]

Definitely agree on Devil's thumb.

[sexual_chocolate]

How about Norman Mailer. Do you guys and gals like Norman Mailer?

Do you think he could have written a good climbing book? Is there such a thing as a "climbing" book?

Do we climb mountains or do mountains climb us?

Matt Anderson, what the hell do you think?

[Dennis_the_Menace]

I met Jon at a booksigning for Thin Air. Humble, quiet and down to earth. Would trust him on the other end of the rope.

[sexual_chocolate]

What the hell is "climbing", anyways?

Seems kinda silly to me, and then to WRITE about it.

God help us.

[TimL]

JK has Devil's Thumb type adventures all over the place all you need to do is look at 1st ascent info in various guide books.

Bugaboo - South Howser Tower - Big Hose Route

JK Solo 1978

[Dru]

RE: devils thumb. the way it came across he went in to solo the (then and still) unclimbed 6000 foot NW face then wised up after climbing a bit of the face. unlikely, IMHO. by his own description the gear he took was inadequate for the type of climbing that the NW face presents, which anyone who has seen a picture of or flown by the face would understand involves very hard mixed and big wall aid.

then he solos an "easy" route to the summit. OK props to him. but, according to his description, he does the FA of an "unclimbed" variation to the Beckey route. my problem with this: the route he calls the Beckey route is the Culbert Starr Douglas E ridge direct. The "unclimbed" route he solos is the Beckey route. Im sure Jon knows enough about the mtn to know this. so did his ediotor change it to make it look like he soloed a FA or did he deliberately lie??????

[Matt]

I've read Eiger Dreams, Into the Wild and Into Thin Air. I thought they were all entertaining books worthy of their paperback price. Sure, Jon Krakauer is no Ed Abbey, but then who is? Jon Krakauer has not sold out in as much as Yvon Chouinard never sold out. He just got lucky.

As Abbey said, "Critics are like ticks on a dog or tits on a motor: ornamental but dysfunctional."

I'd like to see the bullshit toned down on this website. There is a lot of verbal diarrhea that a select few spew all over this site. Hey, I ain't sayin' my shit don't stink, but I don't do it in the middle of the trail everyday for the rest of you to walk over. I enjoy the entertainment value of this web site as much as the next guy and in my opinion it is something like online porn without the tits and ass-- its mostly a mindless distraction, somewhat entertaining but a poor substitute for the real thing. That being said, I think a lot of people are turned off by all the mindless spray and don't post because of it. Maybe one of these people is Jon Krakauer, maybe it's just some regular climbing dude who has a cool story to tell, but he's not gonna share it because he knows if he does he'll just end up with shit on his boots.

Bring it on!