Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 PAGETOP March Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 waste of time driving downtown anyway. downtown is for bikes. I'll take your comments into consideration when you come join me for that commute. Until then it's full of shit. I don't know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 waste of time driving downtown anyway. downtown is for bikes. I'll take your comments into consideration when you come join me for that commute. Until then it's full of shit. I don't know what you mean. It's really easy to say ride your bike in downtown seattle. Then around once you get there. Some people dont live in the town and are travelling from farther away. It's like telling Dwayner to ride his bike to seattle from Tacoma each time he goes and implying it's easier.. The way you state it (very self righteously as well I might add) that anyone who doesnt ride their bike is silly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Besides I look forward to the day I can drive my car down there on some freshly imported Iraqui oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Until then it's full of shit. That's self-righteous. Don't live so far away how's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Until then it's full of shit. That's self-righteous. Don't live so far away how's that. You think you can say that riding a bike 50 miles or more round trip into seattle each time I want to go there is reasonable? Dont back peddle when your argument was flawed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtwigle Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Ah, yes, the beautiful right-wing sentiment that property and the right to shop are worth far more than human life. Keep up the good work for your corporate masters, boys; they'll see that you have a comfortable generic box in suburbia within driving distance of a shopping center, and all the genetically-engineered, artificially-preserved food you can cram down your paranoid little throats. Comfort the lame. I think I'm going to cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Ah, yes, the beautiful right-wing sentiment that property and the right to shop are worth far more than human life. Keep up the good work for your corporate masters, boys; they'll see that you have a comfortable generic box in suburbia within driving distance of a shopping center, and all the genetically-engineered, artificially-preserved food you can cram down your paranoid little throats. Comfort the lame. I think I'm going to cry. Yeah all this from a guy that wants a mega mall next to smith rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 (edited) Yo Cavey - You pretty much made my point. When I asked when the last time a peace march turned violent, and when was the time before that, you refer to WTO. That was one incident, and I don't recall any violence associated with any demonstration before that since Kent State. I'm sure there was one - maybe even two or three - but I just don't remember it. Even if there were five violent protests in forty five, that would be miniscule compared to the number of peaceful peace marches. So in my memory there is absolutely no support for the idea that supposedly peaceful protests are prone to becoming violent -- at least not in this country. In both cases, WTO and Kent State, I believe the police or National Guard initiated the violence, and the "violent" protesters committed some property damage but I don't think any protester attacked a police officer or member of the National Guard; if any did, there were very few who did so. Lastly, the WTO march was NOT A PEACE MARCH. It never was said to be. The issues being protested there had little or noting to do with war and peace but, rather, political and environmental issues completely unrelated to any war. Folks who assert that peace marches "often turn violent" are either victims of some kind of propaganda or they simply don't think American citizens should be able to demonstrate in public. <edited slightly> - Matt Edited February 13, 2003 by mattp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Dont back peddle when your argument was flawed Nice pun. I didn't make any argument to begin with. I'm suggesting don't live 25 miles away from a place you have to go every day. Not that I want to bother with this anymore since your badass sig says it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayner Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 The Seattle/Portland Peace Brigade That's funny, that's exactly what I imagine Dwayner would expect "serious" protesters to look like. I hope everyone goose steps on Saturday. That'll sway the right-wingers. E-rock: You are ignorant and full of assumptions. Imagine what you like. You neither know me, nor my personal viewpoints on the war, nor do you seem to understand my points about protest. Instead of demanding an apology from you for suggesting I am a right-wing fascist, I'll just dismiss this as just another example of thoughtless name-calling from another anonymous sprayer on the Internet. - Dwayner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Yeah all this from a guy that wants a mega mall next to smith rocks. Just a parking lot and a Starbucks! Keep your story straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 In both cases, WTO and Kent State, I believe the police or National Guard initiated the violence, and the "violent" protesters committed some property damage but I don't think any protester attacked a police officer or member of the National Guard; if any did, there were very few who did so. So in my memory there is absolutely no support for the idea that supposedly peaceful protests are prone to becoming violent -- at least not in this country. Lastly, the WTO march was NOT A PEACE MARCH. It never was said to be. The issues being protested there had little or noting to do with war and peace but, rather, political and environmental issues completely unrelated to any war. Folks who assert that peace marches "often turn violent" are either victims of some kind of propaganda or they simply don't think American citizens should be able to demonstrate in public I guess police and NG force makes the right to destroy the seattle city then hey? Yes I do believe it was initially supposed to be peaceful. But you dont want to admit you are wrong is all http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Seattle.asp "While the majority were non-violent protestors, a small group started some violence and looting that led to the Seattle police and National Guard declaring a state of emergency (it was even termed as Martial Law by the Mayor of Seattle at one point). This led to the issuing of curfews, arresting, tear-gassing, pepper spraying and even shooting rubber bullets at innocent, non-violent protestors. This became the mainstream media's major coverage focus often portraying all the protestors as "loony leftists" or violent groups with no clue as to what they are talking about. (Remember, the mainstream media is corporate-owned as well and certain media conglomerates make up some of the largest multinational corporations that directly benefit from the current form of free trade)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Dont back peddle when your argument was flawed Nice pun. I didn't make any argument to begin with. I'm suggesting don't live 25 miles away from a place you have to go every day. Not that I want to bother with this anymore since your badass sig says it all Yes you can shut up now oh righteous one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Yes you can shut up now oh righteous one. Seeing as it's mandatory for you to have the last post, this one's just to make sure you have to post one more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I dont really care iain your argument is bunk and bogus self righteous crap. admit it. I have no problems with protests that are not violent. But your comments matt are well flawed to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I'm betting that if it goes off, it won't be peaceful and not too many people will actually march. A bunch of morons who mistakenly believe that it is their 'right' to clog streets without consequences will make trouble and then blame it on the cops. For those of you that get gassed or clubbed, you probably deserved it. Trask and I will be there selling Tom Daschle voodoo dolls and fake patchouli oil. The truth is that anyone with a personal opinion that differs from that of Greg_W is a moron. To believe in freedom, and the right to gather peacefully is a mistaken belief, and to think otherwise will result in physical violence (and that violence is deserved). And in keeping with the time honored and rewarded value of deceit, you would intentionally take advantage of people by selling snake oil. jkrueger, you're delusional, and quite mistaken about what I believe in. These protests usually end up in some sort of violence, mainly due to someone thinking they are untouchable simply because they don't understand their right to peacable assemble. The right to peacably assemble DOES NOT mean that you have a right to stop traffic, impede business, or any other violation of OTHER INDIVIDUAL'S rights. To do so carries consequences. If you chose to do that, great, but be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. Let them assemble and protest, that is fine and I will be the first to defend their right to do so. However, it is disingenuous to exercise your rights by trampling on mine. As far as the snakeoil comment, that was simply sarcasm, so bite me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Cavey - Those punks who broke windows and stole Nike tennis shoes and north face jackets were just that - punks. I don't think anybody asserts they had a right to do that. I am not defending anything that took place at WTO except the right of what I believe was 30,000 or 40,000 people to demonstrate - and all but at most a couple hundred of them (probably less) were in fact perfectly peaceful. Again - we are talking about one incident in 45 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Greg- I repeat my question: when was the last time that a peace march ended up in some kind of violence? And when was the time before that? (I mean in this country.) It might be fair to say that you are concerned that such an event could turn violent, but I think it is completely inaccurate to say that these things usually end up that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Doesn't anyone else around here feel LESS SECURE at home based on Bush's stunts with Iraq? Peace march or no, I'm pissed off, because his foreign policy is increasing the risk of a terrorist attack in the NW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 The Doctor is still befuddled as to how you wannabombers can be so aghast at people blocking traffic or even breaking a window, and yet you don't flinch at the thought of leveling buildings and slaughtering people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 King's March on Washington in '63. Just imagine the traffic headaches that caused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 hey cavey! just make sure you don't go shopping downtown on Saturday, traffic is going to be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Okay, Mattp, I'll retreat to say "marches" and/or rallies in general, then. Look at all the sports-related rioting, the '68 DNC riots in Chicago (you wacky liberals!!), et cetera. In the past 10 years, or so, it is my opinion that rallies and marches have turned violent because people assume that their right to assemble means wherever they want to; including streets, public buildings, etc., and to do so unimpeded. This leads to a certain level of arrogance when confronted by initially congenial police forces just trying to keep things running smoothly. Case in point is the black church group who deviated from their march route and marched onto I-5 during rush hour. This was clearly illegal and these people should have been arrested or fined, but the police pussed out. My guess is it would have turned violent if the police had done what they should have done and removed those individuals forcibly if they wouldn't comply. Want to clog the streets? Fine, but don't be surprised when you get arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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