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Tiger

Fred Beckey book information request

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A WARNING regarding Beckey's biographer's request from Monday (see below). 

We do not believe it is safe to speak with Megan Bond. There is a risk she will destroy and discredit you. 

She has actively tried to silence critics of Fred Beckey, most recently publicly on Nov 8 - 

"Unless you knew Fred personally..... your comments are warrantless."

There is a reason why his DOZENS of victims and eye witnesses do not speak up... all do not want to speak ill of the dead, many are in fear of the blow back, but most of all no one want to incur the wrath of Megan.

DO NOT SPEAK WITH HER.

 

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16 hours ago, Tiger said:

We do not believe it is safe to speak with Megan Bond. There is a risk she will destroy and discredit you. 

I believe that you are correct in that assertion. Good advice.

Below is a Quote, age old words of wisdom from a "witness" who was so easily dismissed by Ms. Bond. 

"It is always easy to side with the oppressor. All it requires is inaction and silence. There is a strong lure to look the other way and not talk about painful topics. It takes a lot more to stand up to oppression and abuse, even if that might taint our picture of somebody "untouchable", an idol."

 

I would ask, why do so many fear to act with courage, and so easily dismiss those who do?
 

Edited by Chris Hopkins
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20 hours ago, Tiger said:

We

Huh?  What, are you some kind of consortium of concerned citizens? 

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I don't think most viewed  Fred as an idol, especially those who knew him.  Like most of us, he was a flawed human.  He was also a damn good climber and writer.   Did he make men and women uncomfortable?  For sure.  

I don't understand this fear of Megan "destroy(ing)" a person.  It's not like she has any power over anyone.  A difference of opinion is a difference of opinion.  She can't "destroy" you any more than I can with my VAST moderator powers.

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Welcome Tiger, looks like you're a new member on a mission, I hope you'll have some other contributions as well.

I read the thread you linked to on NWHikers, interesting discussion, heated at points, with some familiar personalities, but I don't see anything in there where Megan Bond destroys or silences anyone. She does speak about her experience and feelings about Fred Beckey, and has an opinion contrary to the woman who reported witnessing some inappropriate behavior, but she's not abusive. Do you have any more substantial reason to suggest why no one with either eye witness or personal experience regarding sexual harassment by Beckey should not talk to Megan? Note that her more vehement defense happened in November, and her information request is more current, consider that her own reactions have evolved from grief stricken friend to more dispassionate biographer who needs to collect all information possible in order to write a balanced personal history?

 

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Oh, I could tell some tales.  But sadly, I was given $130K by some hot blonde and told to keep my mouth shut.

 

There is one story I think I can tell.  I was in the Boulder Safeway, and  Fred walks in and starts talking about wanting to get some horse cock.   Our own poster Doug Spinks happened to be in the store at the same time.  He hurried over to Fred, and telling Fred that he, D-Dog was the world leading expert on getting horse cock, led Fred towards the parking lot.   I never saw the two again.

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How dare someone express an opinion that runs contrary to the designated group think already well established. I'm outraged. *yawn*

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On 4/22/2018 at 4:26 PM, Off_White said:

... her information request is more current, consider that her own reactions have evolved from grief stricken friend to more dispassionate biographer who needs to collect all information possible in order to write a balanced personal history?

 

Why would someone who may have had an unpleasant and extremely negative emotional experience want to relay that very personal information  to a biographer that will most likely include that information to help sell a book? 

Just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chris Hopkins said:

Why would someone who may have had an unpleasant and extremely negative emotional experience want to relay that very personal information  to a biographer that will most likely include that information to help sell a book? 

Just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

 

 

It would seem you're just a little challenged with logic.   Maybe....to present more full picture, to write a more informed biography?

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On 4/23/2018 at 1:03 PM, KirkW said:

How dare someone express an opinion that runs contrary to the designated group think already well established. I'm outraged. *yawn*

You mean pop up in a Internet forum and make a bunch of heavy accusations about someone, provide no proof, and then disappear?  Is that an "opinion"?

Or unless you're talking about what is going on over at NWHikers...I don't know the truth of it.  But I don't think accusations of sexual harassment or whatever is being said over there is an "opinion".   It is either fact or isn't.   The truth is known by those party to that, or witnesses to it.   I think the real problem is that some people are treating the matter like an opinion, when all parties (especially victims) deserve a discussion based upon facts.

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2 hours ago, olyclimber said:

It would seem you're just a little challenged with logic.   Maybe....to present more full picture, to write a more informed biography?

 I'm challenged with logic? Really, that's your debate point? That sounds sort of condescending, and to use that method as a point in a debate becomes a  fallacy*.

Let me see if I can clarify my point.

If you had been sexually harassed or worse,  are saying that you would tell that story to the abuser's writer so that they (abuser, or abuser's heirs and writer etc) could make money on your very personal emotional story? 

In other words, would you hand money to your abuser?

*Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Note: My argument points above in no way implies that the subject in question sexually harassed or abused anyone.

 

 

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2 hours ago, olyclimber said:

The truth is known by those party to that, or witnesses to it.   I think the real problem is that some people are treating the matter like an opinion, when all parties (especially victims) deserve a discussion based upon facts.

Yea, but what does Fred say on the matter? Wouldn't he be included in "all parties"?

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16 minutes ago, Chris Hopkins said:

*Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

 

Like the very first post by Tiger?

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57 minutes ago, Chris Hopkins said:

 I'm challenged with logic? Really, that's your debate point? That sounds sort of condescending, and to use that method as a point in a debate becomes a  fallacy*.

Let me see if I can clarify my point.

If you had been sexually harassed or worse,  are saying that you would tell that story to the abuser's writer so that they (abuser, or abuser's heirs and writer etc) could make money on your very personal emotional story? 

In other words, would you hand money to your abuser?

*Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Note: My argument points above in no way implies that the subject in question sexually harassed or abused anyone.

 

 

Actually, my "debate point" was that there are actually reasons (that escaped your logic, by your own admission) that you failed to address that were included in my reply.   Points that were so basic that I just concluded that you may be"logic challenged".  Sorry about that!  Obviously I was wrong.

Anyway, you seem to have a lot of information about Megan and her motives. You must know her well, otherwise you wouldn't be accusing her of trying to make a buck off of someones alleged abuse.  Or did you just read what someone else wrote unsubstantiated on the Internet and take it as fact? If you have substantial facts to share, then do that.  Otherwise please do not respond.  This subject needs no speculation or rumor mongering.

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10 hours ago, Chris Hopkins said:

Why would someone who may have had an unpleasant and extremely negative emotional experience want to relay that very personal information  to a biographer that will most likely include that information to help sell a book? 

Just doesn't seem logical to me.

SPOT ON!

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On 4/22/2018 at 6:13 PM, JasonG said:

I don't understand this fear of Megan "destroy(ing)" a person.  It's not like she has any power over anyone.  A difference of opinion is a difference of opinion.  She can't "destroy" you any more than I can with my VAST moderator powers.

Spoken like a man who has never had his name sullied. It takes surprisingly little to put someone's reputation into question. Anyone who has a platform (a writer, an editor... and may be to some degree a moderator) can call into question someone's motivation... call into question the truth of a story... and rouse the trolls and mobs (even if unintentionally) who will happily finish the job of destroying you or your spirits. 

If you have already been victimized once, being forced to defend your experience is traumatizing. I get that is part of the expected due process, but that process is unkind to victims. And with a biographer who is clearly biased, why would any victim want to put themselves through this? Especially when there is no guarantee of objective re-telling of one's story. Why in the world would anyone come forward? What good does it do other than to satisfy strangers' curiosity?

Edited by Bunny

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From Megan Bond

 To All:
This post is written as clarification –  and in particular to women who have felt personally harassed on various levels (sexual and otherwise). This is to assure you that my intent is to perform credible, historical inquiry and research on my subject, Fred Beckey. 

This post is also written as a courtesy to the moderator (Jon) on cascadeclimbers.com, who asked me to make a statement.

Since the beginning of 2013 I have conducted dozens of interviews of Fred Beckey's climbing partners and of his vast social network. This includes women he knew and dated from his past that might have had less-than-gracious encounters with him - but I have not found this to be true of those interactions.

Still, descriptors of him as being a sexist, or a womanizer, etc. exist, and I have a valid need to find out why. What has perpetuated that label? When was it incurred, and why did it remain? To find answers to these questions I have cast a wide-net into the climbing community - and women in particular - to solicit these narratives.

This research involves an analysis from all perspectives. It includes the need to gather as much information as possible from reliable sources of said subject. The most verifiable sources are primary sources (not hearsay, innuendo or rumors).  In verification, an identifiable venue (“where” did the incident take place?) is necessary to fact check and confirm reports; either a specific or approximation of the date (month and year) is also important, but what is most critical to receive in tandem with these other requirements is a brief scenario or narrative to help chronicle what occurred. 

I’ve spent hundreds of hours tracking down and reading countless letters and memos that were hidden away in files and boxes; made visits to libraries and government buildings for archived documents, and received correspondence passed on from his family and old friends that range from the 1920s to just last year; it’s involved travel to several countries, deciphering countless pages of his diaries; combing through climbing journals and old periodicals. And of course, years of deep conversations with Fred.

Fred's life cannot be sanitized, and I would never attempt to do that. His life was messy, complicated, and many people found him quite disagreeable. 
Although I found in him a beloved companion, that was not the whole picture, and I knew it. 

Did I show bias a few days after Fred's burial with a knee-jerk response I made on a different site? That's probably exactly what came across. Is that actually how I have conducted my research? No. 

Tiger's post (that I will "destroy and discredit" people who talk to me, and that I am "trying to silence critics of Fred Beckey") is untrue. Against the moderator's specific directive to contact me directly with questions or comments, that did not happen. The poster instead chose to smear my reputation and vilify my work. 

To reiterate, based on my original post:
I will hold in confidence whatever is relayed to me that is confidential, personal and sensitive in nature. 

My appreciation goes out to those of you who have given me such generous support and encouragement with this work.

Sincerely,
Megan Bond

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No marmots, goats, pikas or snafflehounds were hurt, harmed, demeaned, looked-at-crossways or other wise harrassed in this thread.   Baby marmots were in fact portrayed by adult pika actors recieving wages as per the local SAG agreement.  Horse cock refers to salami, and not to horse cock.

 

Bunny is not a real bunny, but is in fact the avatar to a human being, likely named Chris.  Likewise, Puma, Bronco and Tiger are not real live cougars, horses and tigers.

 

I hope nobody has felt offended by this thread.  CascadeClimbers will be shutting down in May so all staff and users can go to a bias training at Showgirls in Seattle.

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9 hours ago, Bunny said:

Spoken like a man who has never had his name sullied.

:lmao:

My name is "sullied" on a regular basis at work and in public meetings.... such is the life of a tribal biologist at the hands of racist fishermen.  Life is combat in my experience.  

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I never climbed with Fred, but on arriving in '87 I met several men and women who had and who warned me off doing so. All three had somewhat problematic interactions with him which were peripheral to the climbing (which they all said was great). But in the overall experience and process they ended up feeling somewhat used and abused. And in the decade that followed I heard several more such stories, but all second-hand.

My own experiences with 'larger than life' individuals in arenas beyond climbing have generally left me with mixed feelings about apparent conflicts between their public personas and their private humanity. We all buy into and construct our own personal versions those public personas, but we seldom get a glimpse of the real people behind them and when we do it can be somewhat jarring to realize there can often be a messy dissonance between the two.

In the end - good, bad and ugly - we hail the legend, bury the man, and life goes on; hopefully with a greater sense and awareness of our own humanity, accomplishments, and failings.

Edited by JosephH
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On 4/23/2018 at 7:59 AM, num1mc said:

Oh, I could tell some tales.  But sadly, I was given $130K by some hot blonde and told to keep my mouth shut.

 

There is one story I think I can tell.  I was in the Boulder Safeway, and  Fred walks in and starts talking about wanting to get some horse cock.   Our own poster Doug Spinks happened to be in the store at the same time.  He hurried over to Fred, and telling Fred that he, D-Dog was the world leading expert on getting horse cock, led Fred towards the parking lot.   I never saw the two again.

Pretty sure this will go way, way over the heads of the newer members.

Just remember. Don't buy a used pup tent from the man. It wasn't the tent that got used, it was the pup.

Edited by G-spotter

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17 hours ago, olyclimber said:

Anyway, you seem to have a lot of information about Megan and her motives. You must know her well, otherwise you wouldn't be accusing her of trying to make a buck off of someones alleged abuse.  Or did you just read what someone else wrote unsubstantiated on the Internet and take it as fact?

It's a fact that salacious stories sell books, any book. I would not contribute such a story to a book, any book, if I were a victim of harassment or abuse and it somehow benefits the harasser or the friends of the harasser.

Nothing personal  against this particular writer. 

From my private communications with Megan Bond she seems like a very nice lady. Sorry can't share those conversations here, you know private conversations and all.

And to your question, I read  Megan's own words (quoted below) and took those comments as fact as to her expressed opinions. Seems a bit biased, which is completely normal and understandable that she or any one would take a position of support for a friend and companion.

Quote from Ms Bond.

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1112250

"To radka, et al: 
Unless you knew Fred personally and knew how he could treat both women and men equally with sharp words and gruffness, your comments are warrantless. 

I doubt that within the last twenty years he made a comment to a woman (that was supposedly "witnessed") that was actually misogynistic. 

Fred found equally annoying men and women, male and female, for various reasons, and was not known to withhold brutal commentary or his opinions and subjective observations; he knew he was often "on stage" being watched, and could deliver words that might either sting those they were directed towards, or sometimes have a comic affect. 

Fred was anything but a misogynist, nor was he sexist. Especially in his last two decades he was quite pleased for women, to see women make their way even more independently into the mountains, lead climbs, organize expeditions, and do without men. 

He had a great mental repository of many women's climbing accomplishments throughout history, of which he was quite impressed. He often shared this information and various articles with me and others. 

Was Fred sexist? He was an incorrigible flirt, but as he was also quite benign over the last two decades, he provided good and fun informal laughs to women who responded to his charms, or sought out his company." End quote.

 

 

And what about my point that Fred can no longer tell his side of the story (relevant facts) because seems like your descriptor as "all parties deserve a discussion based upon facts" would include him.

20 hours ago, olyclimber said:

The truth is known by those party to that, or witnesses to it.   I think the real problem is that some people are treating the matter like an opinion, when all parties (especially victims) deserve a discussion based upon facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chris Hopkins
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Chris, the quote of Megan's you cite from NWHikers was posted 6 days after Fred's death and is what she was referring to in her most recent response here when she said, 

Quote

Did I show bias a few days after Fred's burial with a knee-jerk response I made on a different site? That's probably exactly what came across. Is that actually how I have conducted my research? No.

She's not writing a salacious tome in order to make some quick bucks, and she's not looking to exploit the experiences of any "victim of harassment or abuse." 

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