dalius Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 OK, call me crazy, but it looks to me that this placement would just rip right the hell out. It's off of WildCountry's site. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 CBS, yes, the alien stems are *very* flexible. Almost floppy. They can be bent around in a complete circle. Eric made a good point too, I have noticed they tend to gum up quit easily. In fact, when I had a few freeze the other day they became a real bitch to work with. I resorted to putting them in my mouth (yuck) to melt the ice and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Dalius, I'm not sure, but I would agree it looks somewhat sketchy. I'm not as sketched about horizontal placements of these "flexi" cams since there is something to keep the actual cams from changing orientation, but it doesn't look like that is the case in that picture. I think I would have aligned the cams to be angled downward more, but what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 It's the combo of the floppy stem and the bung-up factor that causes problems. Once the trigger device gets bunged up (a bit too frictiony) when you try to retract the cams, the stem just bends instead of the trigger pulling. PITA! When they are working well though, they are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 JoshK said: CBS, yes, the alien stems are *very* flexible. Almost floppy. They can be bent around in a complete circle. Eric made a good point too, I have noticed they tend to gum up quit easily. In fact, when I had a few freeze the other day they became a real bitch to work with. I resorted to putting them in my mouth (yuck) to melt the ice and shit. be careful hommes! i have a pictuer of a friend who put a biner in his mouth while we were ice climbing. stuck to his lips... pulled it out and there was blood cause it stuck so bad! shitty deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctuller Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I really like the metolius TCU's, but I haven't tried the aliens. The big advantage of an alien/tcu is that they are not as fat as camalot/friends (3 cams vs 4). So with a skinny cam you can set it in a narrow crack or pin scar that a bigger cam will stick out of. Really you'll need some of both eventually tho. Also some pink and red tricams cuz they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalius Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: be careful hommes! i have a pictuer of a friend who put a biner in his mouth while we were ice climbing. stuck to his lips... pulled it out and there was blood cause it stuck so bad! shitty deal I had a similar thing happen last weekend. I forget whether it was a nut or a biner, but it was freakin' cold out and the damn thing instantly stuck to my toungue. I pulled it out fast enough to keep from drawing blood, but I did burn my tongue. Freakin' aluminum conducts heat away quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Lambone said: Sometimes one works and the other don't. I disagree, I've never seen a placement that a TCU would work in and an Alien would not, but have seen many circumstances where Aliens worked when TCU's blew out while bounce testing. In otherwords, Aliens allways work. Just my experience, usually obvious in pin scars... I've seen situations where the scars were small enough in length that the TCU heads fit and the Alien didn't there just a touch longer for the same size cam. Both my TCUs and Aliens gum up, especially in the winter aid climbing in the rain. Check the caming action at the end of a trip and if it isn't good soak the heads in Simple Green and HOT water. Rinse well in hot water and then dry and relube with some kind of wax based lube. Works for me. You can also send the Aliens into the mfg and they'll replace the trigger wires and stuff for like $17 ea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Just got back from Alaska. I had a couple of Aliens freeze on Mt Barille. Had to manipulate the cams by hand to contract them, then set them hard to make sure they engaged the rock. Never seen that happen with a cam before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 DPS, yup, that's exactly what I had happen, and mount stuart is a far cry from br barille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Seems to me that Aliens were really meant for horizontal placements, and they work great in them. The TCU works better in shallow, vertical placements. I recently did an aid climb in Squamish where I was walking my 2 blue TCUs up the crack and leaving my blue Alien on my rack. The TCUs just worked better in that sort of rock, so I own a double set of TCUs and only one Alien. If I climbed in The Gunks that might be reversed; so it depends. Here's an accident report that is somewhat apropos here. http://www.pbase.com/phil_box/accident_at_frog_buttress_8303&page=1 http://www.pbase.com/phil_box/accident_at_frog_buttress_8303&page=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 TRAVIS I READ THAT TOO. IT HAS LITTLE IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL GEAR USED. THIS ACCIDENT SEEMS TO BE AN OPERATOR ERROR. AND NOT MECHANICAL FAILURE OF GEAR. YOU CLIMB OVER YOUR HEAD YOU MAKE SHITTY PLACEMENTS YOU FALL YOU GET HURT ALL GEAR IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON WHOM IS PLACING IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Ouch... Looks like some pretty dumb placements on her part, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 erik said: ... IT HAS LITTLE IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL GEAR USED. THIS ACCIDENT SEEMS TO BE AN OPERATOR ERROR. AND NOT MECHANICAL FAILURE OF GEAR. ... I don't disagree, judging from the pics I think I'd have tried passive pro there. The point isn't that Aliens fail more than TCUs, but that they're more difficult to get right in vertical cracks than TCUs. I don't think she'd have screwed up a TCU placement as badly in the same place. All small cams will butterfly if placed incorrectly, but with only 3 caming units, IMHO the TCU is easier to get right, even if you're gripped. Also, more fault tollerant if the placement is less than perfect. When placing an Alien vertically, I find it difficult to see how all 4 camming units are interacting with the rock, especially if the inside of the crack is fluted or irregular. In a horizontal crack, you can easily see how the Alien is sitting, and the flexible stem makes it better in that situation. Just my opinion, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Travis said: In a horizontal crack, you can easily see how the Alien is sitting, and the flexible stem makes it better in that situation. so when you are faced with a vertical crack and an Alien just cock your head over 90 degrees and voila! A horizontal crack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 fern said: so when you are faced with a vertical crack and an Alien just cock your head over 90 degrees and voila! A horizontal crack Can't tell if you were kidding or if I've failed in my explanation. Suffice it to say, gravity will always pull you in the same direction. In any event, if you're okay with this placement then you'd be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 dalius said: OK, call me crazy, but it looks to me that this placement would just rip right the hell out. It's off of WildCountry's site. Am I wrong? Zero Cam is specially designed to flex all the way to the head. That placement would hold. Any other microcam placed that way would RIP! Get ZeroCams they rock. Or Metolius if you want slightly larger sizes cheaper ALIENS ARE JUNK AND SUCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 That's why you place Aliens just like any other cam (if the crack isn't too shallow) and align the direction of force with the placement. I've never had an Alien walk or pull and I've taken falls on them. Including my blue one. If it is too shallow look for a nut placement if you think it isn't secure. Badly placed pro will fail. I also agree with Lambone's earlier statement that you can't beat offset aliens in flared pin scars/cracks. They !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 It seems like this link (click the pic ) is quite applicable to this: dalius said: OK, call me crazy, but it looks to me that this placement would just rip right the hell out. It's off of WildCountry's site. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 the reason that the WC cam broke (on snoboy's link) is that the top lobes were overcammed...but still i was shocked that the freking cable just snapped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Dru said: dalius said: OK, call me crazy, but it looks to me that this placement would just rip right the hell out. It's off of WildCountry's site. Am I wrong? Zero Cam is specially designed to flex all the way to the head. That placement would hold. Any other microcam placed that way would RIP! Get ZeroCams they rock. Or Metolius if you want slightly larger sizes cheaper ALIENS ARE JUNK AND SUCK More great advice from the guy who climbs so much he can spray 364 days a year. C'mon, Dru, like everything else they have their pros and their cons. I've been damn happy to have aliens with me on several occasions. I do want some zerocams too tho, they look very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Josh, once, just once, try saying something nice about another human being. You're such a fucktard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwalling Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I haven't tried zeros but my guess is they are pretty dang awesome. Otherwise aliens are all I use for small cams. I have 12 of the things and place them all over. I also have 2 sets of tcus. They are excellent and I have no complaints but aliens just seem to be superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 trask said: Josh, once, just once, try saying something nice about another human being. You're such a fucktard. Shit, cavey hates me cause I'm too nice, or so he says, and you hate me cause I'm too mean. I'm so confused...I need Oprah and Dr. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 JoshK said: trask said: Josh, once, just once, try saying something nice about another human being. You're such a fucktard. Shit, cavey hates me cause I'm too nice, or so he says, and you hate me cause I'm too mean. I'm so confused...I need Oprah and Dr. Phil. Castration will do that to a guy like Cavey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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