CascadeClimber
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Posts posted by CascadeClimber
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On 12/20/2018 at 9:05 AM, Gaucho Argentino said:
Looking at the first half of climbing in the first pic, on the slabs directly under the fall line of the glacier, do you think is there a way up much to the right against the wall? It seems that in there you could be out of the way of ice falling from above?
Happy you guys made it to tell the story, rad big-balls sorta climbing...
The rock is compact and polished; not much in the way of handholds or gear. The first half of the climbing, up into the basin, did not feel highly threatened to me; there is a lot of lower angle rock between the snouts of the glaciers and that area. The upper slab section, which we found entirely unprotectable and lies in the fall line of the right-hand glacier, might be avoidable climber's right (looking at some other photos), but you do still have to pass the fall line of that right ice cliff. Doing so on class 2 or 3 would be faster though, than the 4/5 we encountered. You'd have to cross the larger, right-hand outflow twice though, which could be an issue depending on volume. It's not a small amount of water, even in later summer.
Almost 12 years later and I still get excited thinking about this route; having gazed up at it, studied it in photos, and dreamed about what it might be like in those upper basins for years. getting our asses handed to us the first try. Getting more and more hopeful as each successive obstacle was passed on the second try. So, so many rappels and so much downclimbing in the dark down the east ridge after getting the to summit. Shivering with one sleeping bag and a space blanket just below the CJ Col after 24 hours on the move, wondering if the predicted rain was going to soak us, and the glorious acres of blueberries we found for breakfast the next morning. There is an experience doing a new route that is entirely unlike repeating; no tat, no cairns, never looking at a route description or trying to figure out if I'm 'going the right way'. Look up, choose the way that looks like it goes, then go find out if it really does. Beautiful simplicity and true adventure.
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On 3/22/2007 at 7:10 PM, Roy said:
Hiked up St helens last August, a guy and a dog just had a the same pace as us. Ranger Rick jumped out from behind a boulder and checked our permits.
Rick told the guy the dog had to be on a leash and threated him with a fine . He had one and Rick let him move on.
So I think these are the current rules.
Rules are clear: No dogs. But it seems like just about everywhere else, the rules aren't enforced, which is why trails are strewn with shit-bags and I've been charged, barked at, and otherwise threatened more times than I can count, and bitten once by a dog whose idiot owner's first response was "Sorry, he's friendly". Hot tip: Your dog biting someone is the very fucking definition of NOT FRIENDLY.
So, so, so done with inconsiderate asshole dog owners who make up all sorts of fantastical stories to justify being lazy, at the expense of everyone else on the trails.
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1 hour ago, jon said:
@CascadeClimber Is it really fair for us to keep getting dragged through the mud about decisions we made that long ago that we have learned from an moved on from? We also could have done everything right back then and still be in the same place.
With the topic of the post it's relevant; it's, in my opinion, a significant part of the explanation of what happened to the quality content here. I'm not saying you weren't in a difficult position. And, that sort of thing went on, in the open for all to see (and in PMs) for a long, long time. So people left. Myself included. As noted in this very thread, some people thought it was 'normal' and/or 'entertaining'. It wasn't.
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19 hours ago, jon said:
I'm really surprised to read this bit and it's a pretty unfair version of history,
Here's a sample, Jon. I'm far from the only one who was on the receiving end of this sort of thing.
"Topic: I have nothing but pain for you
Did you uh like wanna get your fucking ass kicked? Feel free to give me a call 206/235-9497 or drop by sometime. I'd be happy to come over there though and fuck you up face to face smart guy/girl (makes no bones to me-you wanna mess with the best then live up to it). I'll be the 230lb ex ranger motherfucker looking pissed and highly qualified to thump your ass.
Otherwise shut the fuck up and try to go head to head with someone in the minor leagues like you shitbird. GOT IT!"
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1 minute ago, ivan said:
i liked the wild west days quite a bit actually - was decent practice for when The Purge finally breaks out
I guess it was fine if you wanted to be a dick (or worse) to people without much personal consequence, but as far as actual climbing/mountaineering content being added to this site...it was the early death knell. I had more than one threat of physical violence toward me *and my family* leveled by people here, including one that involved "settling our differences with ice axes". Doesn't take much of that to turn a place into the equivalent of the part of town where the police won't go and it is most certainly one of the reason I stopped adding content here.
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33 minutes ago, JasonG said:
I trust the upgrade has fixed that?
Several did not. The most recent seems to have, yes. Thank you.
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I know that Jens' and my Formidable route has at least one repeat. Has anyone repeated or heard of the C-K being repeated?
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On 8/6/2018 at 5:21 PM, Juan Sharp said:
Great work, young man. Seldom have I felt as relieved to be in the Cascade Pass parking lot (or any parking lot, post-climb) as when Bob Davis, Jim Nelson and I arrived there in the early evening on day two of what was supposed to be a day trip up the N.E. Buttress, in July 1999. Aside from being "overdue," we had down climbed the CJ Couloir and were very lucky to avoid serious rockfall.
The Esteemed Mr. Sharp omitted the best quote from that trip (as lifted from his previous "My Kingdom for a Cell Phone" TR. Bob Davis reported that he'd rather be "dipped in shit" that go back up on J-berg.
Though the Doug's Direct route has taken some of the difficulty off, it remains a difficult summit, with no easy way up or down. Standing atop it looking at the tourists milling about at Cascade Pass, knowing that hours and hours of technical descent and then a very long hike lay between you and that lot that seems so close is a unique experience in the Cascades, at least for me.
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Man, if you think it's dropped off in the last two years you missed the heyday here. In mid to late 2000s this place was a madhouse. My two cents on the decline:
1. At the peak the trolls ruled the show here. A few people with many logins went as far as physically threatening people via PM. A lot of valuable contributors left and, apparently, most haven't come back. There was a contingent back then who predicted as much, begging for better moderation. Ad impressions and the trolls won out.
2. Aforementioned social media.
3. I really don't think most people who spend a lot of time in the mountains are extroverts given to sharing their experiences. When this and other forums were new there was a novelty factor that probably drew out some folks who have since gone quiet. The increased crowding in the mountains hasn't encouraged me to post about the cool, unpeopled places I've gone. Before this site existing places like the north side of Stuart via Mountaineer Creek, Johannesberg, Drury Falls, the Pickets, etc. were rarely visited. Now a person who seeks solitude has to go elsewhere and, at least in my case, is reticent to publicize anywhere worth going that isn't overrun.
On a lesser note, I went four of five years where I the software would log me out every time I changed pages. That made posting a PITA that wasn't worth the effort.
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1 hour ago, JosephH said:
cavalier attitudes towards rock climbing was simply a side-effect of the fact that in alpine it must often be a situation of 'good enough and go'. I could be wrong in that, but it's been a fairly consistent pattern seen over decades and I really don't have any other explanation for it.
I believe this often starts from "That's all there is, so go". I've been in on those quite a few times. When what there is (or isn't) is all there is, accepting the situation and making a thoughtful choice is all there is to do.
And, I've seen that morph into "good enough" when there was more to be had. IMO, a good climbing partner will call that out on me and be thankful when I did the same for them. Complacency kills.
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36 minutes ago, JasonG said:
My experience is that the avalanche reports aren't all that accurate. I've been surprised several times when I shouldn't have been, if you had believed the report.
My experience with reports and pits are that they are far, far too generalized to helpfully predict conditions that are highly localized. You can dig a pit that is entirely solid, go 50 feet around a corner and get the chop from a wind slab. In some ways, people with a ton of education about avy risk assessment seem to get into more trouble because they become over-confident about the accuracy of what I see as severely flawed assessment procedures.
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19 hours ago, Rad said:
Look at Loren and Jens' TR on Jberg. It drew a lot of clicks, even if a fair number of people talked about how it was an unwise risk. Would Into Thin Air have become a best seller, or even been written, if everyone came back alive? No. Death and death defying feats sell.
FWIW, I don't have any metrics on my personal web site and I don't have any ads. Never have. Primarily for two reasons: To resist the temptation to make it about popularity and to keep my motivations more grounded (i.e. not about money). I've been asked to write for money and declined, for the same reasons.
I've seen Ed Viesturs talk. I walked out thinking, "That was boring". And compared to someone like Twight, what Ed has to say decidedly lacks drama. If shit looked or felt bad, he went home. And you're right: That crew tends to live longer in more obscurity. Is there a right or wrong option? Not in my opinion. Just choices with consequences.
Jberg and Willis Wall. I'd looked up at both for a long, long time. Started dreaming of Willis when I read about the "Traverse of Angels" in Beckey. It sounded like a place I wanted to be. The Jberg route...to spend that much time moving across terrain entirely untraveled by other humans. After just three of them, I can so easily see why Fred became obsessed with FAs; it's as different an experience for me as gym vs. alpine climbing. No guide book, no topo, no route description, no looking for tat or cairns or rap stations or anything. An entire category of distraction from just being in the place in the moment falls away. My ego did revel in the sharing of what we'd done, yes. And, I don't recall ever thinking "I can't wait to get back and tell people about this" when on-route. "Spraying" wasn't a motivation that I recall. Before JBerg I told exactly one other climber what we were trying, in case we went overdue. Same with WW. And, whether it's a Grade V alpine FA, or an off-trail Alpine Lakes traverse, or a day of off-trail scrambling/canyoneering in the Valley of Fire (all of which I've done with thorough enjoyment), there is just something, for me, more pure and magical about being in a much-less peopled place; finding my own way, and making it up as we go with a fantastic partner.
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1 hour ago, olyclimber said:
you also usually don't hear of climbing being classified as text book addiction though.
Not usually. However, one of the most open, honest, and complete books I've read about climbing is Jim Wickwire's, "Addicted to Danger".
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44 minutes ago, glassgowkiss said:
It states "objective", you can choose to ignore it. But if you climb for instance under active seracs, your skill has nothing to do with return in one piece- it's pure luck- nothing more, nothing less.
Actually, I don't believe that's true. Time spent in areas of high objective danger is a key metric. I've soloed the North Face of Chair in less than 20 minutes and seen people take many hours on it. I accept one form of risk- that a technical error on my part will lead to a large fall, to reduce another form: Objective. Relative to Jberg, Jens and I free soloed the slabs in about 20 minutes. Roping up and pitching them out would have taken hours. As it turned out, that time difference would have been very critical. We had to skills to safely solo and the time we saved doing so likely saved us.
More recently, a slow guided group, including a friend of mine, on Liberty Ridge was forced to make camp on the ridge. They were all wiped out by avalanche during the night. More skilled climbers simul or free-soloing would have made Liberty Cap that day and not been on the ridge when the avalanche happened.
That isn't to say that the going fast in one place couldn't put you in the wrong place at the wrong time later.
If you've been up the DC you've climbed under active seracs. As mentioned, there's a people-trench there and most folks assume incorrectly that lots of people going somewhere means it's safe. I have always felt uncomfortable under that icefall and rest before entering the shooting gallery on the way up and routinely jog past it on the way down. Ignoring objective danger is a recipe for trouble. Making considered choices about it, even if they are contrary to what other people would do, is my preference.
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It's a good discussion. Very good. I'm not at all suggesting otherwise. Just that it's very damn easy to armchair judge the risk choices of others without all the information and/or from the perspective on one's own abilities.
And I'm not immune from it- sure seems like maybe Dean Potter and Dan Osman had adrenaline habits that led to increasingly risky behavior with narrower and narrower margins for error.
If someone can go solo Astroman, which I couldn't aid up, all the power to them. It would be insane and too risky for me, and entirely within their abilities and risk margin. And in terms of the 'not being in a hurry to get out' thing you mentioned, I think it's helpful to evaluate one's motivations. If this kind of behavior becomes "need" and "have to" it's a pointer to an addiction that can easily overrule/cloud other aspects of risk evaluation.
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11 minutes ago, Choada_Boy said:
I have to say, I thought at the time that that JBerg ascent was a shitty idea. Still do. Too much objective hazard. Who am I to judge, though? They wanted to go that way and they did.
You are the person who has judged, I guess. It might be more accurate to say "Too much objective hazard for me".
I would much rather be dependent on my speed and skills to get through that threatened slab section on Jberg than be stuck under a clusterfuck of bumblers knocking shit (and themselves) down on me on the Cleaver or below the Pearly Gates. Similarly, I fret less climbing up the Haystack Gully in thin, difficult ice conditions in winter than I do in summer when the hordes are sketching about above me.
Only two people fully understand the risk on the Jberg route. Both measured it against their abilities and chose to proceed. To this day anyone else passing judgement on it is doing so with incomplete info. It's no different than big-mouth Krakauer writing a book about the 96 Everest disaster from the perspective of someone at sea level- the frame of metrics is just wrong. I've been in situations where I needed something from the lid of my pack and, as Beck Weathers said about his gloves, it might as well have been on the moon. "He should have just stopped and put on gloves" might make 100% sense at sea level, but at 28,000 feet or, as was my case, in 100+ MPH wind, it's nonsense.
Thousands of people a year spend about the same amount of time under the Ingraham Icefall, where Peter Whitaker and team nearly got the chop, as we spent on those slabs. There is a trench-path below the icefall and with it comes a false sense of security.
That said, Jens' (Klubberud, not Holsten) description in the TR he posted is more dramatic than I recall and than what I wrote for my TR and the AAJ article.
My Dad came home from work in April of 2000, went for a run like he did almost every day, and then fell over dead at the kitchen sink from a heart attack. He didn't even have time to turn off the water or call out to my Mom, who was asleep one room away. Another friend had both his parents killed and his wife and newborn kid severely injured by a drunk driver as they stood at a crosswalk in Seattle. The only guarantee in life is death. In the mean time, I try to make conscious, reasoned, internally-referenced choices and refrain from judging the risks other take.
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19 hours ago, Off_White said:
These guys got plenty of grief for the risk inherent in their FA on Johannesberg.
These guys got plenty of grief for the risk inherent in their FA on Johannesberg.
Yes, yes we did. And for the Willis Wall climb as well.
I guess my position is that it's important to evaluate one's motivations for taking risks and, externally, to refrain from passing judgement on the severity of risks others take based on my abilities. Jens and I soloed a lot of unprotectable low-5th on those J-berg slabs. It was well within our abilities at the time and we'd done a lot of similar climbing together for years. At that point we didn't much need to talk to one another on-route, we just knew what the other would do. So while the consequence of an error was high and there was unavoidable objective danger (indeed, the slabs were swept by ice shortly after we got off them), we were able to move quickly and confidently through that section.
As far as motivation goes, it comes down to internal or external. My sense is that people taking increasingly high risks in order to get press, "spray" (to drag out an old term from this site), appease sponsors, get Instagram "likes", etc. are in a higher risk category, as are those who have become addicted to adrenaline. For me, over 25 years, the most helpful question has become, "Can I stop doing this?". If the answer is "no", then it's no less a risk that a drinking, drug, gambling, etc. problem. If the answer is "yes", then it is (for me, at least) important to do so occasionally. There was a period when I thought of myself as "Loren the climber". The first time I lost my climbing motivation for an extended period I had a bit of an identity crisis. The result was a reorientation of my self-concept; I am who I am regardless of what I do..."Loren. A person who climbs."
This connects to the idiotic and profoundly damaging "You complete me" movie idea. No one completes anyone, no one needs another *anything* to be complete. We are all entirely complete all the time. Start from a genuine embrace of that self-definition and the world is a brighter, more beautiful, less heavy place, where one can go have fun climbing and go have fun not climbing.
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2 hours ago, JayB said:
Almost as improbable as the discovery of "Sweet Granite in Renton" many years ago.
Ah yes, "Sweet Granite in Renton", nailing on Green Dragon, Layton's infamous TR as told from the perspective of his unhatched turd. Amidst all the noise there was some classic signal.
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Or maybe Static Point since they closed the road...
As someone who was here from almost the beginning, it's stunning to me that it's Tuesday evening and not a single post been made on this part of the board or in the Route Reports sections in days. In its heyday, this was *the* place to check on Monday to see who'd done what the previous weekend. Zero posts about weekend hijinks on Tuesday would have been inconceivable.
I know Facebook and other social media has taken a bite out of dedicated forum sites, and I also know that some people got chased off by trolls (Z, Foofoo, Borbon's endless avatars, etc), and I know I couldn't stay logged in for a long time- every page load logged me out. But the silence here is still deafening.
Where has everyone gone? Did the novelty of forums for climbing just wear off (we do tend to be a quasi-misanthropic bunch)? The hiking and skiing forums still have decent traffic...
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The entrance fee was $5 for about the first 80 years the park existed. They've since doubled it twice and now this.
The shit thing is that while this is expected to increase revenue by $68MM, the asshat GOP budget cuts NPS funding by $300MM, so they net out $240MM less, if their projection is right (I suspect they've overestimated the new revenue).
All the while, the only thing I've seen MORA management do to cut costs is close the damn park. They've added cell and Internet service to the ranger huts and paid for an ENTIRELY unnecessary webcam at Schurman, and I've heard they intend to blast the shit out of the rocky are west of the Schurman hut to make yet another helo pad, which is entirely unnecessary.
So park management isn't doing the public any favors, either.
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I wrote this and posted it here years ago. It seems appropriate today, with the passing of a someone the likes of whom the Cascades will never see again.
The Random and Omnipotent Goddess of Northwest Weather is my Shepherd; I shall want.
She maketh me to become soaked to the bone in green slide-alder thickets:
She leadeth me onto the slick-as-snot log crossing the raging waters.
She taxeth every fiber of my soul:
She leadeth me in the way-paths of Beckey and I take His name in vain.
Yea, though the approach seems like a walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil devil's club: For thy Goretex art with me;
Thy trekking poles and thy cortisone creme, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a sucker-hole in the tempest storm for me in the presence of mine friends;
Thou annointest my head with rain, ice, and rock fall; My courage runneth away.
Surely "obvious gullies" and "easy 4th class terrain" shall beckon me for all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Cascades forever.
Godspeed Fred. Make sure to ask St. Pete about any unclimbed routes.
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Total bullshit. I had it out with one of them at the gate after we summited last February. We were 10 minutes late and she fucking read me the riot act and played the intimidation game- making a big show of writing down my license plate.
I suggest that you call down there and tell Tracy Swartout that you object, as a park GUEST, to being treated like this. I also encourage you to dispute the ticket: Make them go to court. 360-569-2211
The management down there seems to have entirely forgotten why they are employed. Their (often arbitrary) rules are not the freaking customers, we are. So, so completely disgusted with most of the NPS right now.
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PEBCAK
It's PEBKAC dumbass: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. So you might double check between which chair and keyboard lies a problem- it appears to be yours.
Anyway, all I was trying to do was point out a possible contributing factor to the plummeting participation here. Consider the messenger shot. Continue on as you were.
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Chrome appears to run faster because it starts when the computer starts and just sits there waiting to be used, sucking up system resources. So it only appears to be much faster. The only routine function for which I have to use something other than IE is uploading audio files to an open source VoIP phone system, and that's because the open source community goes out of its way to submarine IE. But whatever. Login persistence isn't a browser function, it's a matter of setting a cookie.
And yes, it's across PCs with clean installs. In fact, it's two laptops with a total of three clean installs.
All I wanted to point out is that I'm having issues and I'm likely not the only one. Coincidentally, since I posted this it hasn't happened, not even once. This after I quite literally couldn't switch between forums the day I posted without it happening.
[TR] Lennox Mountain - Goat Basin Ice Climbs FAIL 11/30/2019
in Alpine Lakes
Posted
Wow, I cannot comprehend how long it's been since my two trips in there.
http://www.cascadeclimber.com/beggars_can't_be_choosers.htm
http://www.cascadeclimber.com/khusia.htm
Like so many Washington ice areas, it's ephemeral and the desired snow cover for the approach makes for snow-covered climbs. What I most remember is coming into the upper basin and not understanding how big the routes are; there's little scale reference and many of the potential lines are 3+ pitches, though it doesn't look like that at first.