DPS

JIMI, A worthwhile resource is Marc Twight's book, Extreme Alpinism. He offers a training routine that is specific for climbing that I have used to good effect. Dan

Boy, how do rumors like this get started? He was wearing Wranglers.

About two miles.

Hey Dumbass, You don't see the point in asking? Well, what is the point of any of these threads? Is asking what's your favorite route any less (or more) relevant than 'what's your favorite piece of gear?' or 'what do you think about the new K2 movie?' I'm sorry that you took offense at this thread. I think the fact that nearly every route mentioned happens to be moderate (and relatively safe) indicates that most folks accepted the question in the spirit it was intended and listed routes that they particularly enjoyed, regardless of difficulty. I have a hard time understanding why one would take exception to this. Dan

Mikeadam, The reason I started this thread was to get an idea of what climbs other people found enjoyable, to get ideas of what to climb. I hadn't meant for it to be a spray fest of any kind. Dan

My partner Nick and I climbed the Green Dragon, IV, 5.9, A2/A3, over the November 11-12 weekend. The weather was beautiful, if a bit chilly. Only a couple of damp sections on the route. We spent the night on top of pitch three in a portaledge. Setting up the ledge in the dark at the completely hanging belay was the crux of the entire route. Some kind soul has been replacing the orginal bolts at Index with modern fatties. One of these new bolts protects rotten flake on the fourth pitch, which was very nice. There are very few fixed pieces on the route. Anyone expecting a climb similar to Town Crier will be in for a rude shock. The climbing is very consistent, with no standout difficult pitches and consistently enjoyable climbing. Cam hooks as well as regular hooks were extremely useful on the second pitch and a mandatory hook move (or free climbing) gets you to the anchors of the fourth. Dan

Does anyone have information on how the local ice (Banks Lake, Snoqualmie Pass, B.C., etc)is forming up? With this cold weather I am guessing we may have an early season.

Thanks for your clarification. I should have guessed that people would have to increase the resistance of the stair machine to counteract the increased weight, but nobody has ever mentioned it. I am recovering from achilles tendonitis. I have included a stretching program in addition to weight training, climbing, stair master and hiking, and have seen an improvment. (Not running has helped as well)

I am currently recovering from some overuse injuries and have been experimenting with different forms of exercise, and I have a few comments/questions. #1. Regarding doing stair master while wearing a weighted pack: I don't understand the point of wearing a pack while using a stair machine as the whole purpose of stair machines is to push DOWN on a pair of pedals. Wouldn't increasing one's weight logically make it easier to push down on the pedals, making for an EASIER workout, or am I missing something? #2a. Hiking uphill with a weighted pack: My prefered method of aerobic/carido training is trail running. I have joined the masses of people hiking up Mt. Si with a pack loaded with rocks, water bottles etc. While this seems to give a decent strength workout, it doesn't seem to offer nearly the same aerobic benefits as trail running. I just can't seem to get my body moving fast enough to raise my heart rate without hurting something. #2b. Hiking with weighted pack, part 2: When I am healthy enough to train by trail running, I am a much faster climber. I think moving the body quickly over trails improves balance, speed and coordination, skills vital to alpine climbing.I also think that carring big packs up hills really trains the body to move slowly, definately not what an alpinist wants. Anybody care to comment?

I would be interested in hearing about folks' favorite climbs in the Cascades. What is your favorite, rock, alpine rock, aid, ice/winter, alpine or mountaineering routes. Here are mine: Rock: R&D route, Icicle Buttress Alpine Rock: The Tooth, South Face Aid: City Park Winter: Mt Si Mountaineering:Adams, South Side Alpine:What's That [This message has been edited by danielpatricksmith (edited 12-05-2000).] [This message has been edited by danielpatricksmith (edited 12-05-2000).]

Forrest, Damn, you found me out, I was in fact hoping folks like you would dish out the good stuff. Thanks for the general ideas. Keep the posts coming, I enjoy reading them. Dan

Blockhead or Snowleopard or Phil or whoever you are, You are probably right, there are more difficult routes than the ones I mentioned. I was merely throwing out what came to my mind. I think to have a meaningful discussion it is imperative to define one's terms. I.e. how do you define hardest route; the one with the most objective danger, the one with the highest standard or rock climbing, etc. I was suggesting climbs that offer the full range of challanges facing the alpinist; ice, rock and objective hazards. Perhaps my perspective is limited as I haven't climbed anything that can be remotely described as 'difficult'. I would be interested to see what someone with long experience would have to offer this discussion. Then again, I don't think many hardmen (or hardwomen) really care about making lists of the hardest routes in the Cascades knowing that they are just a training ground for the greater ranges. Just my opinion, don't get your undies in a bunch. Dan

Lowell, I recall that it was one of you Skoogs that had done the first ascent. The latest edition of the Becky guide now gives it a superlative recommendation. I hype the route to all who will listen. Dan

Your best bet for multi pitch climbs close to Seattle is Index. There are a number of high quality, three pitch routes from 5.6 to 5.9 on the Great Northern Slab, a mere 5 minute walk from the parking lot. Leavenworth is a longer drive, but will have more routes at that level. Check out Mountaineers Dome, Icicle Buttress, Givlers Dome and Castle Rock. Snow Creek Wall has one of the best 5.8+ routes in the state, Orbit.

Dan, Nice going on the second ascent. I went in about five years ago to check out this route and was turned back by poor snow conditions. Had I known it was waiting for a second ascent I might have been more persistent. Anyway, keep the posts coming, I enjoy reading about your exploits. Dan

Ade, Thanks, I have done or attempted most of the routes that Nelson has included in his guide books. I was hoping there was someone out there with first hand knowlege of worthwhile, but unheralded, winter ascents. Dan

I agree completely with Alex. Snowleopard, once you've been to someplace that's for real, (Alaska, Andes, Himalayas, Candian Rockies)your perspective of what is difficult changes. Sure the Yocum seems hard if all you've ever done is some Cascades Volanoes. I know climbers of unexceptional ability that have done Willis wall. They made no fewer than six attempts in the winter, waiting for the right conditions. That's the real reason those routes are rarely done, the preserverance and timing involved in catching them in good nick. As for Victory Ridge, the 'direct' route is a pile of rubble.

I am very interested in climbing mixed routes in the winter, (steep ice, rock, snow) and am looking for route recommendations. I am interested in routes with a reasonable approach that can be done in 2-3 days. I'm sure that there are more routes like Triple Couloirs and North Face of Chair that someone knows about. Thanks [This message has been edited by danielpatricksmith (edited 10-19-2000).]

Do mean most dangerous, most technically difficult or hardest to find in good nick? Sunset Ampitheater Headwall is likely the most technically difficult route on the volcanoes. Willis Wall is just plain dangerous and Yocum Ridge is dificult to get proper icing conditions. My vote for most difficult route in the Cascades is the Girth Pillar on Mt Stuart..technical difficulties to 5.11+, loose rock, frequent big avalanhes and rock fall, and a difficult approach via the Ice Cliff glacier.Having had one serious go around with route, I sure won't be back for another.

I have one: About two months ago I went for an eleven mile run. The following day I guided a mellow day trip (Ingalls peak). The next following days I climbed back to back strenuous rock routes (East Butress Direct on South Early Winter Spire and the Boving route on the North Spire) By the end of the last route, I could barely walk. Burning pains shot up the back of my legs, from the heel to behind the knee. I took a week off. Then I went for a six mile run and did a couple of mellow routes. The burning pain returned. Two months later, I have residual pain and tightness (feels like a knot) in one calf, just below the knee. It won't go away, but stretching and light excercise seem to help. Any idea what I did to myself? quote: Originally posted by Courtenay: Hey all, Thought I'd help us get started: what are some of your common or recurring ailments related to hiking/climbing? We'll try to provide the board with tips to strengthen specific body parts and deal with injuries, as well as prevention of injuries in the first place. What would you like to see included? Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Early Winters Couloir I discovered this fine route while researching lines that might offer good winter/spring mixed climbing. Finding such routes has since become much easier thanks to Nelson's guide books, but back in the day one had to read Becky's guides carefully to find the rare gem that offered good climbing and reasonable access. This route delivers both. The route follows the 1000-foot, east facing couloir between the North and South Early Winter Spires. The majority of the route climbs cruiser 45-50 degree snow/ice with cruxes coming as mixed sections bypassing chockstones. The route delivers a final sting in the tail with an enormous cornice that must be bypassed on aid. Season: April-May, after North Cascasdes Hwy opens Rack: Four screws, six large nuts, five pins (two knifebades or bugaboos, angles from #1-#3), four pickets, cams from 0.5" to 3", two tools, 60 meter rope, aiders, hooks, prussiks or jumars. Time: 1-2 hours to base, 5-6 hours on route, 1-2 hours descent. Difficulty: Grade III, 5.8, A2, WI 3. Approach: Park at the hairpin and hike up toward the objective, as if one was approaching the East Buttress. Climb up easy slopes to where the couloir steepens at a convient tree belay. Route: We stepped out right from the tree and climbed steep ice (60 degrees) to lower angled slopes (45-50 degrees) for three pitches, finding both rock and ice anchors for belays. At the start of pitch four, we dry tooled past a large chockstone. A #3 Camalot was useful for protecting this section. My partner, who led this pitch, found a belay in a cave created by another chockstone. On the fifth pitch I pulled over the chockstone and climbed steepening snow (to 75 degrees!) before tumbling into a spacious cave underneath the very big cornice. The cornice overhung 20 feet on the right hand wall but only a few feet on the left-hand wall. The left-hand wall it would be. A couple of dry tool moves brought me to a small flake. I nailed the flake, which promptly fell off into my lap. I nailed the flake stump. The knifeblade rotated 90 degrees under my weight, but held. No more cracks or flakes appeared, the wall was featureless. (Note to self, bring hooks next time). At this point, I was past the most severely overhanging portion of the cornice. The cornice still reared back at 95 degrees, however, and consisted of sugar-snow. I hand placed a picket, clipped my aiders to it and weighted it. It held. Four more picket moves brought me to an 80-degree section, which I swam up and then dove down the backside. My partner jugged the rope. We bombed on down the gully, making one rappel past the chockstone. We walked around the east side of South Early Winter Spire and descended to the hairpin. Synopsis: This accessible route packs a lot of interesting climbing in its 1000 feet; ice, rock with a little aid thrown in for good measure. Warm up on this route, and then climb the East Face Couloir the next day to complete the weekend.