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MrGecko

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  1. Joseph, there is a good AAJ article that Tom Frost compiled along with his concerns about pins long before my time and it included areas beyond Yosemite, I just used Serenity as a convenient example. If you can't read the post here I can send you the article although I believe its all searchable on the AAI website. Regarding Beacon, I was on Fear of Flying and the upper pin on the first pitch no longer exists. Apparently it is no longer needed because where it used to sit is now a place for gear which didn't exist before. The second pitch also is missing a pin and I suspect the situation is similar but can't confirm as I am not that familiar with that route. I'm relaying this second hand as I don't really know where the pins were placed but was informed that this is the case. This could be conjecture and feel free to set the story straight if you know more. If I come across more examples I'll make note and share. I'm not advocating bolting all the cracks but am thinking alongside with the rest of our community on how we address climbing, safety, maintenance and preservation of the routes as best we can. Bill's experience shines a great perspective on a particular route and reminds me that often there isn't a one solution fits all to these issues. Appreciate all the fodder.
  2. The problem is that routes eventually lose old pins, when the pins are replaced they damage the rock further and then on some next cycle those old pin holes become hand holds and/or gear placements. It might not be in our generation but maybe in the next cycle or thereafter.
  3. "Serenity Crack would not be climbed free by 99% of the people it is today if it had not been pinned out for years aid climbing, and creating bomber locks and clean placements. " Does that validate the fact that the rock was damaged by pitons? If so then why can't climbers head out to Beacon and beat the shit out of a route with pins until its nature becomes similar to that as Serenity? That way more of us could climb those harder routes.
  4. Clearing out my gear box and I have the following all in good condition. Stuff is available in Portland for pickup or I can ship for $6 if it fits in a Small USPS Express Box. BLACK DIAMOND & DMM NUTS, $4/pc BD STOPPERS #4,8,12,12 DMM WALNUT #7 BLACK DIAMOND STOPPER SET SOLD #4-#13 $35 --- ALL CAMS HAVE SOLD ---- CAMALOT 0.3, $40 CAMALOT 0.5, $40 CAMALOT 0.75, $40 CAMALOT 1.0, $30 CAMALOT 2.0, $30 TRANGO FLEX CAM 6.0 (same size as CAMALOT 1.0), $25 has extendable sling
  5. I've been thinking about the discussion above and pins in cracks vs. bolts beside them. I suppose if bolting was easier than pounding in a pin climbers would have taken that option way back when as a first approach to fixed gear, however that wasn't the case. But pounding pins has a major drawback vs. bolting, it permanently scars the rock feature that the climber is attempting to ascend. If you have ever climbed Serenity Crack then its obvious that you are mostly climbing pin scars and not so much a natural feature at times. Had the crack been bolted then the same fixed protection locations would have been afforded but the climbable feature would have been left natural and unaltered. Should the bolts ever need to be removed because of advancements in clean climbing gear, the holes could be filled and following climbers would be none-the-wiser. In addition, if a policy was adopted that bolts being used alongside cracks as fixed pro were pulled/cleaned and the hole reused this would minimize the damage to the natural state of the route. So I'm starting to view pounding in pins, which may or may not be replaced at a future date more akin to chipping a route and that, from what I can tell, is definitely frowned upon in the climbing community.
  6. Couple of questions for the locals. When climbing Jill's Thrill there are three belays that can break the route up. Assuming one uses all of them, what crack is the final pitch of Jill's Thrill? Does it take the flaring crack on the right of the belay for pitch 3 or the thinner finger to hands crack on the right of the belay? What route is the other crack? Secondly, there seems to be two pins on the lower Fear of Flying pitch but the topo shows four. The upper section has one and the topo shows two. Were those pins pulled or ???
  7. Step & Fetch It (5.10a) now has its own top anchors. The route to the right of it called The Martyr (5.8) and which goes through the roof was extended and now shares the top anchors with Step & Fetch It. Mountain Project has been updated to reflect the changes. The image/topo is shown below.
  8. Just go climb it PINK and get your own pics
  9. Joseph's point regarding the maintenance of fixed anchors whether they be bolts or pins is spot on. Both are effective forms of fixed protection but without a plan the responsibility falls on the individual climber. I don't have an issue with that myself but working with the Portland Rebolting Team it's obvious how much more efficient it can be with an organized plan. Costs, time, records, etc. are all easier to keep track of when we do it as a collective. Hopefully the latest Beacon Committee will recognize and address that issue. Rescues cost much more than regular maintenance and I don't mean in purely a monetary way.
  10. I will let you know but that would be a great alternative. I might buy stock in BallNutz if this works and mark them up for Ivan.
  11. I'm positive that when we climbed there you swore you hated the place and thought the rock absolutely sucked. Glad to see you give it a second chance.
  12. OLD LINE GETS NEW LIFE AT BEACON ROCK - "CLOUD NINE, 5.9" Each time I was up on Grassy Ledges I would look over and wonder what route were those old rusty homemade hangers on? A dirty, lichen covered, uninviting slab led up to the first one I could spot but the line looked like it hadn't been climbed in a long time. I kept thinking that it would be cool if the SE Corner route had a bit more climbing and less scrambling after the first 3 pitches and so I started my exploration to uncover Cloud Nine. The first order was to replace the three old homemade hanger bolts with some fresh modern day material. Next was a bit of cleaning to uncover pockets, slots and cracks that would allow for gear placements and to expose some of those edges you will need to dance your way up the crux section. Today along with Matt, I got out and led the line and I must say it makes for a fine alternative to the scrambling portion after Grassy Ledges of the original SE Corner. There are a couple of popular ways that one could get this pitch in: Option 1 - Climb the first 4 pitches of the SE Corner route, stopping at the top of Grassy Ledges just before it dips down to climbers left. Set a belay here using cams; an old bolt stud can be seen at eye level. The route heads out right along a cleaner line of rock which should be obvious at this time. Option 2 - Climb the first 2 pitches of Young Warriors but on the second pitch finish up left to Tree Ledge and belay here. Then merge into the fourth pitch of the SE Corner and follow that up to Grassy Ledges. Just before the Grassy Ledge trail dips down to climbers left. Set a belay here using cams; an old bolt stud can be seen at eye level. The route heads out right along a cleaner line of rock which should be obvious at this time. Cloud Nine, 5.9, 50m Head up right following a shallow ramp and finding good pockets for gear. Continue up the slab trending right until below the first bolt. Climb up through the bolts (crux) finding good edges and a fun series of moves until the terrain eases. From the last bolt step left and continue straight up the corner and crack until you pull up on to a clean slab with a piton to the right. Traverse right to the piton and join the Young Warriors line from here; onward and upward through more fun climbing. Do not stop at the intermediate belay ledge but instead move right up another slab ramp and continue up passing a piton and one last bolt. Belay from the ridge and note that this pitch is about 50m in length. Gear: 0.1 - 2.0 Camalots, 1 Set of Nuts An extra 0.2 & 0.3 is helpful
  13. Freak Freely has now got its own set of top anchors. This avoids the need to traverse to either of the adjacent route anchors. The bigger questionable blocks were jumped on and tested and are fine and secure. A bunch of gardening was done to clean up this route.
  14. Freak Freely, 5.10b has a direct start that is a bit of a boulder problem but can be protected from the ground with a good nut to keep your arse out of the dirt. It raises the grade a notch or so but worth a go.
  15. That topo shows an approximate position of the bolt and route. I've lead it and it flows nicely to protect the crimps right of the bolt. Taller folks can go left of the bolt more easily and if you really want to skip the crux you can step far left and go up the corner. Let's climb it next time you are out
  16. STEP & FETCH IT, previously a top rope line, is now open for leading. A couple of bolts were added (with the permission of the FA) including one for the crux start. Bring a bunch of 0.5" microcams as they work well for pro on this route. More info: STEP & FETCH IT
  17. A new route went in The Landing area called Thin Line 5.10c It has four bolts and some thin gear and currently ends at the Dark Horse Anchors. It may get a direct finish sometime in the future. The Oracle 5.10c has had two bolts added.
  18. Bitterroot Plunked a new route in on the Gold Wall yesterday between Kung Fu and Whine & Cheese. It follows a crack line up the wall and finishes at the Kung Fu anchors. It needs a bit more cleaning which I will get to in the coming weeks and might get a bolt. BITTERROOT
  19. I haven't read any climbing literature suggesting how routes should be graded. So I am asking since I'm sure we all have our own approach to how we set a grade. The difference to designating a grade based on an onsight vs. red point can be significant especially if the FA doesn't consider the subtleties of working on a route. Some climbers will put up a route, work and wire it and then assign it a grade. Of course once it has been rehearsed and the climber is more efficient, the route may seem easier. Does that climber decide to grade it based on their most current experience or on the experience of the first time they climbed it. Do they base it on the first time they climbed it clean or just the first ascent? Top rope or leading it? Preplaced gear or fixed quick draws? Although we would like to think that none of these things would affect the grading of a route, they do because it changes our perception and experience of the climb. If you climb a route only once and have to assign it a grade how accurate would that be? You may have missed key holds and your experience would again be different. Rap bolting also lends itself to inspection of a route vs. a ground up ascent. So let's say I rap and drill bolts and then pull my rope and climb the route. Technically I am red pointing the route since I have intimate knowledge of the line from cleaning and bolting. However, the next climber that shows up and does it from the ground up has a different experience with no inspection. Do I grade the route based on my first redpoint go or should I consider what it would have been had I not known all the key hand holds etc? Here is my understanding regarding the other two topics that were coming up in discussion. Single Hardest Move Type Routes - yes routes are often graded for the single hardest move. If you have a pitch with 5.5 climbing and it has a short step with some 5.9 jamming it will be given a 5.9 grade typically. Grading for the pitch is not an averaging of all the moves/terrain and the YDS 5.number system doesn't accommodate explaining a one move wonder pitch any better than it would describe a bunch of 5.9 terrain with a short section of 5.5 climbing. That is what route descriptions capture and is how one could describe it more clearly. A topo also helps by showing the one 5.9 jamming section. Sustained Routes - I have heard climbers say "that 5.10 line doesn't have a move harder than 5.9 but it's sustained 5.9". I get it, 5.10 lines that have stances and rests or big holds are easier than 5.10 lines that have the same sustained move over and over. Again, the YDS isn't designed to convey this information. Technically speaking if each move is 5.9 then the route should be graded 5.9 because the YDS isn't based on an averaging of move difficulty over a distance, it's just a rating of movement difficulty. The length of the 5.9 climbing shouldn't affect the assigned route/pitch grade because if it did then we better consider how to grade the route/pitch if we use a 30m, 50m, 60m or 70m rope. Again, use the description to describe the line as sustained. That said, I have experienced climbs getting bumped up and rated for their sustained nature and as G-Spotter stated some routes got a grade "for the pump". I should add that at the higher levels of sport climbing routes are getting graded higher because of longer and more sustained moves. A line of 5.12 crimpy moves for 50' definitely gets bumped to 5.13 so in practice do we have a grading system that works differently in the lower grades vs. the upper grades? Grading is a subjective thing and hence the challenge with quantifying it.
  20. The difference to designating a grade based on an onsight vs. red point can be significant especially if the FA doesn't consider the subtleties of working on a route. Some climbers will put up a route, work and wire it and then assign it a grade. Of course once it has been rehearsed and the climber is more efficient, the route may seem easier. Does that climber decide to grade it based on their most current experience or on the experience of the first time they climbed it. Do they base it on the first time they climbed it clean or just the first ascent? Top rope or leading it? Preplaced gear or fixed quick draws? Although we would like to think that none of these things would affect the grading of a route, they do. If you climb a route only once and have to assign it a grade how accurate would that be? You may have missed key holds and your experience would again be different. Rap bolting also lends itself to pre-inspection of a route vs. a ground up ascent. So I rap and drill bolts and then pull my rope and climb the route. Technically I am red pointing it since I have intimate knowledge of the line. However, the next climber that shows up and does it from the ground up has a different experience with no inspection. Do I grade the route based on my first redpoint go or should I consider what it would have been had I not known all the key hand holds etc? Grading is a subjective thing and hence the challenge with quantifying it. I'm jumping this thread into another if you want to chime in ... CLIMBING GRADE THREAD
  21. As an extension to the 2014 route updates here is what's up: A) Variety 5.8 - new top anchors were added so the route can be rappelled. B) Whine and Cheese 5.10d - this route was cleaned up and retro bolted to eliminate decking on the 1st ledge. A direct variation was added which offers more climbing in the grade by ascending directly up the overhang/bulge mid route. The direct variation doesn't require gear and is completely bolt protected. C) Meth Rage 5.7 - top anchors were replaced with 1/2" SS D) Tofutie Cutie 5.11a - a new route added between Meth Rage and Mrs. Norris. Bolts and 1 optional pc of gear ~1" after the third bolt. E) Mrs. Norris 5.11c - this route was retro bolted, extended and had the old pins removed. It no longer requires gear and now climbs all the way to the Meth Rage anchors. F) The Crumbling 5.12a - the scary bolts were pulled and replaced and this route also was extended to the Meth Rage anchors. The prior update thread: 2014 Ozone Updates Note that updates to routes are also posted on Mt Project
  22. Do you think routes are generally graded for on sight or red pointing? Are sport and gear routes graded differently in this respect? Since most sport lines are rap bolted it would be hard to say that the route setter "on sighted" the route so it would be a red point grade and if so does a route setter bump it up a point or so for an on sight grade? Thoughts?
  23. mksportn - Kenny and I were with you on one of your sends but you had mentioned to us you had been on it before. That was the day we added the bolt up top.
  24. If you have climbed Rolling Thunder at Ozone what would you grade the route for an "On Sight" lead ascent? I'm curious as I haven't personally met anyone who has on sighted it; I'm sure they are out there.
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