CClimber

There is an old running joke (of course I have forgotten most of it).. but something along the lines of, to train for climbing: Quit your job run on a treadmill setup in a sauna, take baths in a tub filled with ice cubes use a rasp to file your fingernails run up stairs with 100lbs in a poorly fitted pack fall down said stairs try to start a fire in the shower try to light a match while standing in front of a fan set at high put your fingers in a vice and tighten wear the same underwear for two months take all your money, put it into a pile in the center of your living room and light fire to it. Do this a couple of times and you should be ready for climbing.. But to be serious, the best training for climbing is by climbing. Learn what your limits are and then try to push them just a little. Find a group of climbers in your area, and see what they have to offer. Find a mentor (probably the best), baring that take some classes that teach you basic safety practices. Try to team up with more experienced climbers whenever you can. Believe it or not, climbers are a fairly friendly group. Pick up and read "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills" (one of the first books on climbing that I read when I started 30+ years ago). Pick up copies of "Rock&Ice", "Climbing", or "Alpinist". Find some copies of "Accidents in North America Mountaineering" which is published each year by the American Alpine Club. This is not for morbid curousity, but to learn from others, and to also prepare you for what can happen. As you get into climbing you will probably find most climbers that have been around long enough have had a friend or two that have died in the mountains. Expect raw humor from climbers as well, you will probably learn whole new ways of swearing that would probably make a sailor blush. Anyway.. take care, and remember that climbing is dangerous and that you are personally responsible for your own safety and the safety of your climbing partner.

An avy beacon is most useful as a team self rescue device. Each member of a climbing (or ski) team wears one. Best practice when traveling in avalanche terrain is to limit the teams exposure to one person at a time (better still is to avoid the terrain in the first place). If someone is caught in an avalanche, the rest of the team switch their beacons from transmit to receive and start performing a search. A person buried has minutes to be found, usually over 30 minutes ends up being a body recovery. An avy beacon is really targeted towards team self reliance while a PLB is a call for an external rescue.

Sorry to repost a link from the prior thread, but here is an analysis of the cost of mountain rescues made by the American Alpine Club. http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pdfs/MRreal.pdf Climbers for the most part are a fairly independent group. Part of the concern of some climbers when the media starts focusing on events such as this, is that there will be regulations or restrictions. While certain aspects of climbing have become mainstream (you see TV ads showing people climbing artificial walls while on a cruise ship), and the whole sport climbing scene, there is still a large segment of climbers that have dedicated their lives to pursue being in the mountains. Some of these climbers don't take vacations from work, but instead will find new jobs between climbs. The fear of some of these people are being told what they can and cannot do, especially by people who don't really understand the sport.

I wasn't trying to imply that it was a snow bollard, but just wanted to give non-climbers at least an idea of what an anchor in snow might possibly look like.

A quick google image search on "Snow Bollard" will bring up examples of them.

Just to chime in.. First to the family, friends of the three and to the SAR folks, my heart goes out to you all. From what I have read about the three, they are first rate climbers who got caught with some bad luck. It looks like they did their homework, and made sure people were aware of their itinerary To the non-climbers, a couple of comments that might help you understand some things.. The first, is that while the three were/are hoping for help, they were more then likely prepared for self-rescue. When technical climbing such as on a big mountain (such as Hood), one cannot simply sit down and say "well I will wait here for help". This is not a hike in a park along an established trail with a ranger passing by. The most important safety practice that any mountaineer needs to take to the mountain is self support. Some speculation on the reason for the two caves. It could have been that the two came back, and tried to assist the third (Kelly?) back to the summit, found that he couldn't make it and re-dug a 2nd cave, and then proceeded for help again. The discarded gear could have been Kelly's, which might not have been needed and therefore just extra weight. On the "Y", it looks like an anchor setup, nothing more. In the terrain that they were in, it is possible that they anchored themselves in the cave. On the terrain that they are dealing with. Here are some steepnesses of ski runs, 30 degrees is maybe a blue run, 35 degrees a black diamond, and 38 a double black diamond run. From a earlier comment, the route that was being climbing was around 60 to 68 degrees. (BTW, this angle is usually too steep for an avalanche since the snow just sloughs off, -- so the largest avalanche danger is from the terrain above where it may not be as steep - most avalanches start on slopes between 35-45 degrees). The other thing is that the type of snow climate in the PWN, the highest danger of an avalanche is during and right after a storm. The problem with requiring mountaineers to carry radios, locating beacons, etc., is that it simply is a false sense of security, and would probably lead to more rescues of people who should not have been there in the first place (see above comment about self-support). The exception is avalanche beacons, and the main reason for that is that they are designed for a team self-rescue. In an avalanche, one has minutes to find someone who is buried. Anything over 30 minutes is usually body recovery. As also stated earlier, one of the big concerns among climbers is regulation, especially after a huge media event such as this. Part of what makes climbing - climbing, is that it's an endeavor that allows one to test themselves in an environment where there is no regulations. A (getting geeky here) Star Trek Next Generation quote sums it up nicely "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." To those concerned about the cost of the rescue, here is a study showing how climbing stacks up to other rescues http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pdfs/MRreal.pdf Bottom line, climbers are not the "problem". However they do end up being a target because of the spectacular media events that sometimes surround the rescue. The reason why the media is attracted to events such as this is because it's "news", they don't understand it - it's not mainstream, why would anyone go do something like that, etc. Again to the family and friends of the three climbers, my thoughts and prayers go out to you.