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Zeta Male

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  1. Is this "ping" any more accurate than the GPS coords returned from E911?

     

    Pinging or making a routine call does not give accurate location info to the Telco. At worst it says you are 'near' some tower.

     

    A 911 call transmits the GPS info and they know where you are usually withing +/- 2 meters.

     

    Assuming you have a GPS-capable cell-phone and are within range of ANY towers.

  2. Hello.

     

    I found the following post on another forum and thought you might be interested in reading it. I hope you don't think I'm silly for putting this here but I know first hand how some simple information never makes it to the most important people.

     

    I am not a climber. I'm just a person praying all of you stay safe.

     

    --------------

     

    Patti McInroe Says:

    December 18th

    I was up on mt. hood snowshoeing yesterday (sunday). We were in a clearing and had a perfect view of the South side of the mt. hood. We were watching all of the helicopter activity searching for the climbers and all of the sudden I saw a flash that looked like a shiny mirror reflection…like a mirror calling for HELP. It came from about half way down the mountain and right in the middle. I hope they look on the south side. They could be stuck and unable to walk. I thought about it all night and hope this info can be passed on.

     

    Very concerned!

    Patti

     

    here's the link:

     

    http://thehendricksreport.wordpress.com/2006/12/18/the-adventurist-makes-contact-with-mt-hood-sheriffs-department-after-tip-left-on-site/

     

     

     

     

    Relatives of the climbers may not want to read this.

     

    Folks, I know the searchers are the best qualified to take care of matters and I have much confidence that they will do the best thing, but I'd really like to see some effort put into having a a helicopter fly slowly and low up and down Zig-Zag and White River Canyons looking for signs of the two missing climbers; I've seen nothing to indicate that this has been done and, as Sean's post yesterday stated and others since have pointed out, there's nothing definitive that proves the two missing climbers didn't head out south towards Timberline Lodge, which they may have then missed. Sean (one of the rescuers) said in his post yesterday that most of the footprints found in the summit area are faint and subject to interpretation.

     

    The fact that the woman quoted hasn't completed numerous fast-and-light Cascade ascents doesn't make her an idiot, and while I'm skeptical that the noted reflection was anything more than the windshield of a car headed to Timberline, I've seen and heard nothing to indicate that a thorough aerial search of the southern flanks has been attempted. This bothers me.

     

    Eight-nine-ten years ago or so the body of a missing climber was discovered in one of the noted canyons years after he'd gone missing; authorities were quoted as being very surprised at the location since all of the initial rescue and recovery efforts had focused on the N/NE side.

  3. Can anyone also enlighten me on how PINGING works? I don't own a cellphone and whatever info you have would be great.

     

    Pinging is nothing more than a handshake btwx the cell tower and cell phone. Something like

     

    Tower: "Hello, anyone there?"

    Phone: "Yep, phone No. 123 reporting in"

     

    or the phone says:

     

    Any Towers out there?

    Tower: Yep, tower 2 right here.

     

    I take it you know you've "pinged" when you've gotten a signal -strength indication?

  4. Johnny R, I don't know what you may think is a dumb question but I would have to say it is unreasonable, in my view, to request that people refrain from asking a question here if they have not first read through all 50 pages of this discussion or conducted a Google search or whatever. I guess opinions vary on this point.

     

    Right on, Matt.

  5. the first thought I had after reading about the possibly cut rope--it was due to iced up knots and/or cold hands

     

    I think they wanted to leave enough rope to signal James Kelly's location but wanted to take the rest with them, so they cut it.

  6. If the other climbers were alive and had not fallen or something happen to them don't youy think someone would have seen them coming down the mountain yesterday on a good day. not trying to be morbite just realistic and the poor families need closer and i pray they get that and don't have to what until the spring.Iam still praying.

     

    One or both of them could still be merely unconscious or otherwise immobilized - perhaps he/they stumbled into rocks in white-out conditions.

  7. Much thanks for the tremendously informative info Sean.

     

    There were quotes in the paper yesterday that suggested that the surviving climbers' being on the S/SE/SW side was as much a possibility as anywhere else but that the search of these areas was being discontinued only because it is so vast and therefore impossible to search thoroughly with the available resources; I found this, if accurate, somewhat disturbing.

  8. Although it might have just been slack, and maybe they've checked already, I'd be interested to know what's at the other end of the nat. pro. anchor.

     

    It lead to the empty snow-cave - the empty one with the equipment and room for three (probably the one that was occupied first).

  9. You folks who know the mountain: do you think the possibility that the two missing climbers made it to the summit area and descended to the S/SW, only to pass Timberline Lodge in white-out conditions, has been adequately addressed by the search team? This happens to novices, and the two climbers were not familiar with Mt. Hood; who knows how capable they were with a compass in their shape.

     

    I haven't been able to see yet any pictures of the snow-caves - the links given earlier lead to pictures way too big for my laptop monitor - in context with the footprints leading up and down from them; I take it the footprints that went up don't continue on the other side of the ridge?

  10.  

    Please go away.

     

    Right back at you, 'freak - really not learning anything worthwhile from you. Go start your own thread.

     

    Otherwise I thought some of the humans might be interested in the following excerpt (the parts which which I found interesting & informative) from an article from the Dallas Morning News (the full text: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121806dnmetclimbersfolo.346e39c.html ).

     

    About 1 p.m., rescuers dug into an abandoned snow cave near the 11,239-foot summit of Mount Hood, where they had hoped to find Mr. James. A rope had been laid out in a Y shape – a signal climbers use to identify their locations – near a sleeping bag and ice axes.

     

    Two sets of footprints tracked away from the icy dugout – one toward the mountain's peak and the other down the mountain, ending in a circular pattern, near where rescuers discovered a second snow cave and the body.

     

    The search for the two remaining climbers is to continue today.

     

    'We remain hopeful'

     

    "We remain hopeful," said Mike Braibish, a spokesman for the Oregon National Guard. "We are going to still collect information and pursue the rescue of the two other climbers."

     

    Rescuers would not explain why they suspended the all-night flying pattern of a military plane outfitted with heat-sensing equipment Sunday. Aerial information led searchers to Sunday's discoveries.

     

    Blizzards and hurricane-force winds battered Mount Hood most of last week, and the storms knocked out power to approximately 300,000 Oregon homes. Skies above the most-climbed peak in North America cleared Saturday, allowing airborne and snow-shoed rescue crews to reach the summit.

     

    The clear weather is expected to hold through Wednesday.

     

    There has been no communication from the climbers since Dec. 10, when Mr. James used his cellphone to call his family. He told them he was sheltering in a snow cave while his companions started back down the mountain, apparently to get help for him.

     

    Mr. James told his son he did not have his bivvy sack – a waterproof covering for a sleeping bag – and had only half an orange to eat.

     

    "By the tone of his voice, I could tell something was really wrong," said 25-year-old son Jason James.

     

    Sunday, the man who introduced Mr. James to climbing more than two decades ago while they were both students at Texas Tech University watched television reports, fearful that searchers had discovered his friend's body.

     

    He suspects his friend abandoned the first snow cave and ran down the mountain until hypothermia-induced delusions clouded his judgment, which would explain the footprints in circles.

     

    'His last chance'

     

    "He probably figured it was his last chance," said Keith Airington, a veteran climber from San Antonio. "He knows they were looking for him. At some point you know you have to do something ... or you're not going to make it."

     

    I think the plane's checked out because it wasn't useful - there was a story yesterday that it couldn't find some rescuers who buried themselves in a snow cave at night. I don't think this means in and of itself that the remaining two climbers can't be found. But it does look like Monday's the last day for organized searching, I'm sorry to say.

  11. Hi ya'll I just want you to know that I have learned something here on this site today...

     

    From now on no matter what I climb, winter or summer, I will always carry the following:

     

    three ice tools and an axe, spare picks and bolts (two for each tool), three ropes, two extra gallons of fuel, spare food for two weeks, two stoves per person minimum, A tent, bivy bag, space blanket, signal mirror, two cell phones, 2 spare batteries for each, a HAM radio, an auxilarry antennea for the HAM, spare batteries for this, a GPS, a PLB, a family radio, a whistle, dry logs and an axe, matches, lighters, flints, lighter fluid, heat packs, spare clothes...good God many, my personal favorite a not yet invented indelible mountain marking device that will explode bright color around the spot where I am (telepthically controlled of course), and Toblerone

     

    I just had to vent...it was that or I was going to gouge my eyes out

     

    peace

     

    WTF - no 105mm cannons (to take care of the avi danger)?

  12. Nope, Mike is definitely not all bad. He's a heck of a good climber and we like him around here. Lambone is OK, too. What I saw was a thread that we have been trying to maintain as an information-sharing discussion (with some disctractions here and there) rapidly accelerating toward off-topic banter and quip. I cut out a handful of posts and suggested that elsewhere on the board we maintain opportunities for any and just about all of the comments somebody would want to post.

     

    But here we've been talking about the incident, the search and rescue effot, reporting news, and speculating about events. If you want to argue about the ten essentials or call each other idiots there are indeed other discussions on this very website for that purpose.

     

    A special place where I can call idiocy - really?!?!?!?!?!?!? I'm there! Bye for now.

  13. Lambone, Shini, and Layton: we have been trying for the last few days to keep this thread relatively free of the tit-fot-tat and similar distractions. One climber was found dead today. We are all saddened by this turn of events. Please, of you feel the need to debate somebody about MRE's or something, go to another thread.

     

    Why didn't you delete my smack-down of Layton? You deleted his of Shimi, I think it was. I guess I got a little uppity with Layton. He's probably not all bad.

  14. Wow - 30 new pages since I last signed on! I'm way to tired to read them all tonight so I'll just pass on a few notes from the south side from this weekend.

     

    Saturday was the first day we could finally do a thorough search of the entire mountain. Our hope was that someone would pop out of a snow cave and we'd spot them and be able to rescue them. We positioned ourselves and our equipment to be in position for a rescue if someone found these guys. Obviously, this did not happen.

     

    Our secondary goal for Saturday was to check out the upper mountain and see if it would be possible to push a team up to the summit on Sunday. We checked avi conditions (scary, but doable) and tried to establish a camp at Triangle Moraine (but couldn't due to high winds and extremely cold temps). A team was able to make it up to the hogsback but had to dig in and hide in a snow cave (-5 degrees F and 30 mph winds). The cold yesterday was brutal and several rescuers got frostnipped on fingers, toes, and faces.

     

    Today we shifted modes a bit. We learned that some clues had been spotted just below the summit on the north side so we focused all our efforts on getting teams onto the summit. A team of 2 made it up from the South Side and met several more as they were lowered by helicopter. They only had 2 hours of daylight to search the entire summit but were able to find a lot of clues including the obvious (and unfortunate) big clue. They couldn't positively identify the person we found because they couldn't find any wallet or anything in the 15 minutes or so they had before it got dark. There simply wasn't time to to a recovery today so they marked the location and I'm sure they'll return tomorrow (weather permitting, of course) to complete the recovery and follow up on the rest of the clues.

     

    Now I'm going to take a long, hot shower and then sleep for about a week.

     

    -Scott

     

     

    PS: Thanks very much everyone for respecting the closure of the upper mountain and staying out of our way. It really helped us out a lot and we really appreciate it.

     

     

    Tremendous work, Scott - thanks for being there.

  15. I've been following this, and I seem to get the idea, they were not prepared. Prepared to climb, not prepared to be there for any length of time. I've only heard mention of a Gortex Bivy bag. Was this the ECWS system, and were they carrying the other parts. Did they have stoves, fuel, MREs, tent or even reflective mirrors.

     

    A gortex bivy is great without a tent in a snow cave. I always carry 2 to 4 bottles of fuel, even on 2 day outing, just in case. I have a MSR stove, and also a small German stove, about the size of a can of shoe polish. I also carry a can of shoe polish, as easy to light. And several small plastic boxes sealed with firestarter, waterproof matches, Trioxane, and a keyring, with a tiny led light, fingernail cutters and a P-38 can opener. One box on my belt, one on my vest, and 1 in my pack.

     

    A MRE in my belt pouch, 1 or 2 in my day pack, and 1 or 2 in my full pack. They all have Matches, Food, Toilet paper(Emergency kindleing) and other essentials.

     

    If I'm hiking a trail, even if I'm going 1 mile, I carry all this stuff. I also keep this pack in the back of my Van.

     

    I hope these guys are OK, but you also need to be preparred for the worst. Mt. Hood isn't a walk thru a wooded trail in the summer.

     

    Yeah, I got 60 lbs of extra crap in my pack, but I'd rather have the extra work lugging it around, then not have it when I needed it.

     

    And when you start leaving rope, and especially a Bivy bag behind, it's looking bad.

     

    Again, my prayers to the climbers and family. And next time you're going out, don't throw that second canister of fuel back into your vehicle to lighten your load by 2 lbs.

     

     

    STFU poser! Thanks for listing your backpacking gear, i'm sure you'd be rescued well before the summit, considering your 10 essentials encumbered bag of crap.

     

    Why don't you STFU Michael Layton, you obnoxious drooling, mouth-breathing pig!!!

  16. No, I don't have a Radiation suit when I go out into the wilderness. (I keep my Chemical suit at home with my gas masks and generator). But I have been out in snow above the treeline, and stayed a month+ with what I had with me. And I've had alot of fun doing it.

     

    As for speed, then you get what you asked for. OK, so I wouldn't go on the hardest route. But I'd get to the top and back alive.

     

    And you don't need to carry all the stuff I do on a technical climb, but you can carry a few extra pounds of food and fuel.

     

    The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as fast.

    To quote Bladerunner.

     

    Carry a few extra of the basics no matter what.

     

    I'm 48, been camping/hiking in the worst conditions possible since I was a kid growing up on a remote 1400 acre farm. So, no, I wouldn't go by the worst route, I'd go the safe route, and be prepared if I got stuck for 2 weeks.

     

    If you want to go the quickest/ hardest route, that's your call. I'd rather go up there and stay for a few weeks, see the daybreaks and sunsets, wake up in my snow cave, make coffee while still in my bag, get up and go outside and see the great view, that changes daily.

     

    And forget about my clients for a few weeks.

     

    I like your style and wisdom, ShiniGami.

  17. I've been following this, and I seem to get the idea, they were not prepared. Prepared to climb, not prepared to be there for any length of time. I've only heard mention of a Gortex Bivy bag. Was this the ECWS system, and were they carrying the other parts. Did they have stoves, fuel, MREs, tent or even reflective mirrors.

     

    A gortex bivy is great without a tent in a snow cave. I always carry 2 to 4 bottles of fuel, even on 2 day outing, just in case. I have a MSR stove, and also a small German stove, about the size of a can of shoe polish. I also carry a can of shoe polish, as easy to light. And several small plastic boxes sealed with firestarter, waterproof matches, Trioxane, and a keyring, with a tiny led light, fingernail cutters and a P-38 can opener. One box on my belt, one on my vest, and 1 in my pack.

     

    A MRE in my belt pouch, 1 or 2 in my day pack, and 1 or 2 in my full pack. They all have Matches, Food, Toilet paper(Emergency kindleing) and other essentials.

     

    If I'm hiking a trail, even if I'm going 1 mile, I carry all this stuff. I also keep this pack in the back of my Van.

     

    I hope these guys are OK, but you also need to be preparred for the worst. Mt. Hood isn't a walk thru a wooded trail in the summer.

     

    Yeah, I got 60 lbs of extra crap in my pack, but I'd rather have the extra work lugging it around, then not have it when I needed it.

     

    And when you start leaving rope, and especially a Bivy bag behind, it's looking bad.

     

    Again, my prayers to the climbers and family. And next time you're going out, don't throw that second canister of fuel back into your vehicle to lighten your load by 2 lbs.

     

    Excellent post, to which I would only add that no climb plan should be regarded as complete without the climbers answering the question "What are we going to do if one of us breaks our ankle?".

  18. I have read every post. -Good for you!

     

    You have not. Re-read my post and understand what I said. You are obviously not a climber, so I will not waste any more time You're right - I do find many of your remarks to be a waste of time if not merely tedious in explaining it to you exceot for this last bit of info. which has been covered for several pages earlier in this forum: You descend the S. side under most conditions and after climbing up most of the routes on Hood. Actually climbers descend Mt. Hood by whichever route their skills and sense of pleasure lead them to, regardless of the way they came up. I used to think "Why the hell would I want to go back down the same way I came up - how boring". But then I came to realize that it all looks different when going back in the opposite direction - you see sides you didn't see of things you saw on the way up. This works even on dull slogs like Adams and St. Helens. But traverses are still my favorite. They're a little tough on Hood though - I thought the final pitch up to Jefferson would never arrive.

     

    The climbers' original plan was to descend the S. side to Timberline to be picked up by friends. They left a note in their car that in case of an emergency they would descend Cooper Spur which is a ridge to the left of the N. Face and would return them back to their car where they left it at Cooper Spur ski area.

     

    Look, people reading in here aren't going to go back and read almost 40 pages of comments just for the privilege of making their own in here.

     

    The climbers' note just re-iterated the obvious: if an emergency arose such that coming back down Cooper Spur was what made the most sense then that's what they'd do. But if they got to a point where descending the south side in accordance with the original plan made the most sense, then you'd have to think they were fools to do otherwise. They weren't fools. They prepped pretty thoroughly for their adventure, it sounds, but things went to hell, as they quickly can up there. They're not going to descend Cooper Spur in any and every emergency situation. They had to have known that the fastest connection to civilization would be to try to reach Timberline Lodge. What, do you think that if they suffered an emergency 100' above Timberline Lodge they're then gonna head back up the mountain and down the NF just so they'd comply with what they'd written in their note?

     

    I've "climbed" more Cascade peaks than you'll ever know including the very mountain at issue and, more importantly, I've turned back there and elsewhere when conditions indicated it would be wise. I've read enough posts in here to tell that you, on the other hand, are definitely arrogant, presumptive, probably foolhardy and therefore dangerous.

  19. Actually, James was somewhat incoherent/disoriented during his last call. The part about "get[ing] help" was how the person taking the call interpreted and reported what James said. James's specific statement was something along the lines of one his buddies having "gone into town" and the other being on a plane home.

     

    So James wasn't communicating too clearly before his call was cut off; it appears he may have been suffering from hypothermia as early as last Sunday, when he made his last call.

     

    I'm not an expert at all, but if James had hypothermia, wouldn't it be best for all three climbers to stay together and pool their body heat, fuel, warm clothing, etc.?

     

    From what I've been reminded of while reading these posts, yup. But I suspect that James's buddies must've decided at some point that he was so bad off that his only chance to survive would be if they descended for help.

  20. I don't think anyone knows why one climber was left on his own by his two partners.

     

    According to the phone call placed by James last Tues., the other two went to get help. That's why he was left alone. We don't know yet which of the climbers was found today.

     

    Actually, James was somewhat incoherent/disoriented during his last call. The part about "get[ing] help" was how the person taking the call interpreted and reported what James said. James's specific statement was something along the lines of one his buddies having "gone into town" and the other being on a plane home.

     

    So James wasn't communicating too clearly before his call was cut off; it appears he may have been suffering from hypothermia as early as last Sunday, when he made his last call.

  21. I understand that each person would have at least a tool and ice axe, maybe 2 tools and an axe, a South side decent only requires an axe (for self arrest) particularly for the upper portions un roped.

    The searchers should have air horns.

     

    I have often thought of ways to identify an emergency cave, the best I can come up with is a dye pack that would bleed through several feet of snow. It would need to be a contrasting color other than black. but that is a conversation for later.

     

    I like yuor idea.

  22. For all of the newbies or those just joining the conversation, PLESE RE-READ PREVIOUS POSTS. Most of you questions have already been answered. And no, East Coast hiker, they did not indicate S. Side would be their escape route in an emergency, they said they would descend the Cooper Spur directly beside the North Face.

     

     

    Speaking of reading previous posts....

     

    Their original plan was to descend the south side and meet a ride at Timberline; the climbers' no-show there on Sunday triggered the initial search.

  23. Eventually the third guy decided to move, probly bacause he was frezzing to death sitting still for so long.
    That theory would fly in the face of every other theory that says it's warmer and safer in your cave then venturing out in the cold. Are there any known cases of people leaving their cave to be found elsewhere, without an accident, and without digging a new cave?

     

    have you ever sat in a wet tent or a snowcave in freezing conditions for several days in a row?

     

    One body isn't enough warmth to keep a snowcave very warm, three maybe, but not just one.

     

    at some point it's either get moving and get your core temp up, or die in your sleep from hypothermia.

     

    Thanks for another useful point.

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