tradclimbguy

There's a crux pitch on outerspace? If so maybe you can draw me up a topo because I'd like to go try that pitch, I seem to have missed it the last couple times oooohhh burn. hahaha and an old guy burn at that, bwaaahahaha!

Ughhh. I'd have to say mine was the first time up the Nose and I couldn't imagine hitting that in the winter. Then again I don't really aid climb all that much and I'd hate to try any of those climbs big wall style with a haul bag and all. For me it was just the shear size and effort. Lots of free climbing and work, kind of like working on a ranch. I guess I could see maybe doing something like zodiac big wall style. Not sure though how that would be mentally if all the aid and hard aid would be more difficult that being on lead free. I've gotten worked over on other climbs or just on the way down, but definitely that first time getting on the big stone and just trying to hammer it out. By far the most physically challenging and mentally challenging.

Or slogging my million pound haulbag to the base of some big wall.

Geez, how hard does this have to be. Just get a passport if you don't already have one and bring it. Problem solved, end of debate.

What? Am I not cool b/c I don't have 200 posts yet. Damn you kevbone I take it all back. Now it's time for me to go spray in one of the many Hood threads about whether or not the rope was a "sign" or if laying on my backpack would work better than building my own avi beacon out of shoestring and a biner. There is a new culture craze that we are seeing here and it's kind of weird. I think its good the site allows anyone to post if they are a member but I wonder if things will change after this one. It's like every looky lu that slows down to get a look at the traffic accident. Move along people, move along.

Guess I just made the grade. Phew. I was hoping I wouldn't get lumped into the Mt. Hood Lemmings category. Thank you soooo much Kevbone. I really appreciate this second chance and will truly not let you down

Just get old. That seems to help me get across the border

I like how he says "well, my two Bomber bits of gear decided to pull out". Definition of Bomber: Bomb-er (Bŏm ər) adj. Bombest, Bomb, da Bomb 1. Of good quality and substance. a bomber piece. 2. Sound; reliable. 3. Gear that will NOT "pull out". Now somebody needs to forward this definition to him so he can either place "bomber" gear and not worry about decking or he needs to learn to rephrase things. How about: "my two shit pieces of gear pulled, which I expected and I decked from 15 feet but luckily didn't kill myself which I should have; maybe I should go back to clipping bolts" I found the thread about the accident. The guy is an idiot. He placed a tricam for the first time on apparently a "ground up FA"? Doesn't make sense. Anyway... http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=5&MessageID=195&Replies=47&PagePos=160&Sort=LastMessage#newpost

Damn. I type too slow. hahaha Good point Choada boy!

Same line of thought as CatBirdSeat, but what about all those fat smoking lazy bastards who clog our medical system with heart disease, emphysema, diabetes and all the other health problems related to being a fat lazy F*ck. Just like the comment: "It really sucks if they don't find anyone to charge for the rescue." How about: It really sucks if we continue to let people like this drain our system. Maybe we need warning signs when entering McDonalds or BurgerKing just like the signs we need posting "No climbing" on all our mountains.

Then you'd have NWHikers.com If they ban climbing, what's next? A ban on sticking your dick in a toaster oven? Whatever. Hiking is way to dangerous with all those gun crazed nuts running around the forest, or have you forgotten already about that one.

If they started to put up "weather condition" bans it would just be one more thing to piss on as you passed it on the way up the hill. Same goes for many of the permits, parking passes and trail head checks. We all take a different perspective on them. Non-climbers such as O'Reilly are too stupid to even worry about. He has no clue on how things work and has over simplified a solution he and the ignorant masses think would work.

11. Lookout Point - Index Hahaha, nice.

1. Lower Wall - Index 2. Upper Wall - Index 3. RattleTale Wall - Index 4. The Diamond - Index 5. Blues Cliff - Index 6. Rhythm Cliff - Index 7. Middle Wall - Index 8. Sport Wall - Index 9. The Country - Index 10. Great Northern slab - Index Is there anywhere else?

I'd like to know when climbing became "Extreme" or a dangerous sport anyway??? Granted if I didn't climb my odds of dying while climbing are greatly reduced but I've never thought of climbing as being overly dangerous. Yes I could rappel off the end of my rope and die but its no different than saying I could drive my car off the road at 65mph and die too. Just ain't gonna happen. People just over think everything. Climbing is no more dangerous than Mt. Biking, Skiing, Hiking, Road biking, taking a piss, washing my hands, crapping on the toilet, farting... ok, maybe I went a bit far, but come on.

I think that about sums it up right there. I vote to leave GMD alone and instead focus on energy on reviving old routes, trail maintenance and fixing old gear. We could start instead by showing that poor little crag some love and replacing the anchor on GMD and I could try to finish cleaning the far left route I began cleaning last year. We also started working on the cliffs above GMD and maybe somebody could work on the stairs and bridge path up there.

I can only imagine the amount of vegetation on GMD, damn good work DC. As for bolting it, I for one am not against it as I can remember a time before the BD#6 I still think if people sent GMD with pro they'd get more props I just don't know how I feel about chopping bolts on that route because I would worry the route would just be reclaimed since not enough people would do it then. I'm perfectly happy clipping them and/or leading next to them for now. You can remember what you did 18 years ago! I sure can't

Ok, so I'll address each a bit and I'll start with the - "Aging hardware" topic. The link OW posted is a good one I've been reading that too. Basically the question is what to do with old hardware like 1/4 button heads with leeper hangars or old degrading pins that continue to fall out or have to be repounded again and again destroying more rock. Somebody has suggested to build replica hardware that look like each so that the original gear could be replaced with something as permanent as a good bolt. Here is a picture: I definately think its a cool idea but I do worry about a couple of things. One being quality control. I'd almost rather see an old pin replaced with a bomber bolt of "known" quality and strength such as from one of our many suppliers of such equipment like BD or Metolius or Fixe, etc. I do however like the idea of trying to retain more of the history but to what extreme? Why not just drill a 3/8th hole in a KB or LA, set the pin then bolt it in so no more hammering is needed, at least i'd know when I clipped that eyelet that it would hold for sure. The guy making the ones above may be good, but home made stuff is pure sketch in my eyes, we will never know if the next guys "replica" bolt-pin was done with quality material. That replica leeper hanger in my book is a bit much. Again the same question with quality of the new piece, it will never retain the same feel, the only way we'd get that is by replacing the worn out leeper with a NOS ("New Old Stock" for you non-collector car types) hangar, but we all know they aren't as strong so maybe when we run across true history such as the leeper we should just replace most of them and leave some in place with a new bolt next to it. Not as aesthetic but then at least you can see the real original bolt. I do see merit when doing a route and old FA gear. Kinda like the single leeper hangar on Slesse near the top, fun to see. Obviously this doesn't carry onto situations where a removed pin allows for new pro such as a cam, those should just be removed, the pin scars are remembrance enough. I would agree however that hammering pins should disappear altogether b/c as I've said before you can bitch and moan all you want about bolts but the damage they do can for the most part be restored whereas a pin scar is here to stay forever and directly affects the climbing itself by modifying holds. Next topic - Kevbone "masta route setta" If people can't find the final placement even with beta and end up risking a ground fall by climbing through that section with no pro I see it as good karma on your part to have added that bolt. No doubt on something that is all bolted minus the one piece of pro people will likely miss the placement. It's like this one 5.9 I can think of at exit 32. I don't know the name, but its the cliff you get to before WWI, it was a 5.9 with a very long run out to the second bolt, but obviously there was a horizontal that took a good nut right in between. Being me I just brought some gear with me for that blank section and protected it right there, voila run out solved but I saw a few other people breeze through it sketched out b/c they though they had to just run it out. yeah, you could say "dumb sportos they should just learn to climb with gear" but it will never happen. Recently I noticed a bolt has been added. Bad form in my book but in reality with every other route there being all bolts its probably just better that way. Who knows maybe some day people will start doing more bolted routes by omitting them and placing gear. Heinous cling used to have 3 or 4 bolts to the top! Gear was placed in between but b/c of damage to the rock and the extra difficulty to find and place marginal pieces bolts were added, probably a good thing in the long run so future generations can appreciate the route minus a bunch of scars and blown out holds from gear. Finally - Off widths and bolting. I'm torn on this one. Things that were once bolted b/c of lack of gear is a hard one. Yes, excalibur doesn't have bolts but it is also very much less accessible than Gorilla of my Dreams and it does have a bat hook ladder past some of the OW so that theory is kind of shot anyway. Basically we have the gear available to us now so I'd hope new FA's out there would do it ground up with gear instead of bolted for easy access, but what to do about the existing routes? My vote would be that you go and climb GOMD with only gear and then proceed to brag about it to everyone, maybe the trend will catch on. I know I'd give you props for taking the effort and time to drag up a bunch of big stuff and crank it out in good style. The bolts won't be in your way and you'll probably never do it again like that while at the same time not upsetting the existing balance of "history" and other such things by chopping the bolts. It's like Sonny Trotter who did that route on Monkey's face and skipped the bolts placing only gear ground up. You ever heard anyone mention that send without making a big deal about him NOT using the bolts? Everybody mentions it, heck he gets more notoriety b/c of it. Anyway those are my long blathering views. Time to work, I guess.

My last couple of ropes have worn out (been retired) for the following reasons: 60M Beal 10.5 Dry - Lead on this thing for about 4yrs, it finally got stiff and really sun bleached and the sheath was worn in a couple spots. Both ends got the chop from core shots and by now its good only for fixing as a rap line. 60M Beal 10.2 - Lead on this thing for about 3yrs, hundreds of pitches, lots of raps, many falls until it finally lost its elasticity. It then turned into a gym lead rope until it had absolutely no stretch left so it's now in line to become a rug or something. 60M 9.1 dry - separated the sheath from the core after a couple hard trips with it, didn't retire it, but returned it to REI for another one, but I would have retired it otherwise. At one end there was about 10ft of sheath but no core! 65M Yates big Wall rope 10.5 - Not retired yet but only another few walls away from going in the bin. It's currently got about 80 pitches of jugging, no falls, no core shots that I can tell but when it's you the rope and 2500ft of air I start to think another 150 bucks is pretty cheap when it has to hold up to edges and big fall potentials. We only got it in September so I could see retiring some ropes in under a year depending on the use. 60M 9.8 Mammut - Almost forgot this one. Bought it this year. led about 5 pitches on it until lowering over a sharp edge it must have caught an imperfection int eh sheath and completely chopped the entire sheath and part of the core! Returned it to REI and will probably never buy another mammut. My though is my rope is my most important piece of gear and it's all one big judgment call on my part so if I've gotten a core shot or put 200 pitches of jugging on it or it's been around for 5 years all factor into when I retire it. I don't think we can put an exact number on them. I've heard of sport guys taking upwards of 40 big whippers on their lines but then again thats another specific kind of wear totally different from sawing through your line jugging. Personally I like when they take old ropes and test them, thats where I learn the most.

ok, but only this one time, hahaha Another good one I read somewhere was for boulderers or "Pebble Wrestlers". That one actually made me laugh quite a bit but only just a bit.

blah blah blah spray, blah blah so and so is dumb, blah blah spray blah, screw you too, blah spray blah spray blah. That about sums up the last three pages. Excellent example of another bolted crack. This was a cool conversation until every armchair pilot decided to blather on about ethics and bolting and non-bolting... I think there is already a long boring thread on that elsewhere. So far we've listed the Smith Rock bolted Crack, Black Cat Bone, Angora Grotto and Gorrilla of my dreams at index, Fast Draw at Sentinal spire. I know of a few at the sinks in Wyoming I can list when I get home to my guide book, Dana's Arch at index is bolted and we've got a few routes with bolt on holds. What else people got??? (other than drivel that is)

Tally up our few burns on it that day and we've probably got 15 Anybody know who added those particular bolts and when? I thought about giving them the chop last year but then we tried the arete to the left "Accidental Discharge" I believe and got put back in our place. All I can say about that "11c" is WTF. You are never far from a sandbag at index is all I can say. Then again I am old and suck. I'd have to guess though the bolts were added due to the bolts and the beginning and end of the route and the fact most of the cliff is bolted. I bet they just figured it would be nice to add another climb to the crag that didn't require gear. Seems like that mentality lives at primarily sport crags though.

I've got a better idea. How about we all just go up to Index and climb more in general. Clean said routes up nicely and get more people interested in them before chopping stuff. I'd rather see half of the classics unearthed and cleaned before time and effort was spent removing bolts that may or may not have a negative impact on the climb (like Gorilla of my dreams). As I said I remember climbing Angora Grotto back in the day before any bolts were in place. Not sure why they were added to the crack section, but I'd rather just ignore them until I know exactly who and why they were put in. Then I can either kick their ass myself or maybe be swayed as to why they appeared and should not be chopped. Same goes for Black Cat Bone. I'd be willing to bet 5 people total went up and did that route over the last few years, me and my partners counting for three of them.

I'm waiting for the new BD neutrino's. Supposed to be 6 grams lighter I figure for every two neutrino's I replace with two of the new lighter ones I can eat one more piece of pizza without it lowering my redpoint level. hahaha Overall I think lighter gear is the future and will help to some small extent, but I don't really count the weight down to the gram. I do usually try to rack my lightest biners and draws when getting on something huge b/c it all adds up and I'll snag our new BD #4 over the slightly heavier one. For me size makes the biggest difference. I'd rather have a very thin biner so I can rack 8-10 cams/draws whatever on each gear loop, weight comes in a close second but I'm not going to worry about a couple grams. Those heliums are sweet, but I don't care for the gate action as much. Still a fan of the neutrino's and I really like some of the Positron draws, I'd vote to add those to the top.

Already mentioned that one... Now if you want a good mixed area I suggest Skaha. While most people think its all bolted, next time you go there try a bunch of the older routes. Very interesting when you clip, clip and then have to slot a nut in a little constriction if you can find the spot or run it out 20ft to the next bolt. Any bolted on holds at the exits or vantage? I mean with Index and Smith both having them I figure the bolted up places might have some too.