tradclimbguy

5.9+ climbs set before 1940. Another one that can say a lot. Then again we got Action Directe in 91 by Wolfgang Gullich which is considered 15a. 16 years and nothing "harder" has been put up, just a few more players and a couple more routes in the game is all. The more people that climb the more climbers there are that climb hard. Then again the more climbers that suck too. Things are advancing with technology and training but I think if you re-rated half the Beckey or Robbins routes a number of them would probably be 5.10 which is what we think most people climb anyway. Just sayin I don't think much has changed.

The grades mean nothing. Style is where things come into play. If you are young and have injury free tendons and ligaments go pull plastic till you can repeat it on the sport crag then 11+ to 13- is probably the new middle of the road. Depends though on where you hang out and with who. Go sit around the sport crags at Smith in March and middle of the road is probably 12+ to 14-. I don't think much has changed. Percentage wise we still probably have most people running 5.9 or less and middle of the road going maybe to 5.11. 5.12 and up still seems to be the high road. Then again I don't clip many bolts so that changes stuff a bit.

Take some of the scariest big wall routes in the valley and you have numerous mandatory free climbing on 5.10 R/X pitches mixed in with the already scary aid. I'd still call that Big Wall and even classic big wall regardless of pulling some of the pitches free. Big walls are not solely "aid", Salathe had numerous free pitches on the FA. TeleRoss does make a good point though on style. I think there are distinct Big wall styles. Classic Big Wall - Mostly aid, multiple days and hauling a pig Speed Climbing Big Walls - Crack jugging, short fixing and as much free climbing as possible in as short a time as possible. Free Big Walls - Obviously no aid. May still be multiple days with hauling but instead of aid you free. As for me, I've done the Nose, but only in a speed ascent. It would be completely different story to try to bring a pig and haul for days on end to get to the top. I don't think it would even feel like the same route which is why I really think the idea of "Big Wall" has to go beyond just aid climbing.

A big wall definitely needs to be a vertical wall. If it weren't that sustained vertical it would just be mountaineering, so I don't think total vertical climbed is big wall. I actually go more off pitch count. Pick a nice vertical wall then count the pitches. Whatever you consider more than just a day at the crags is then a big wall to you. I consider things like the chief a crag but El Cap is definitely a big wall for me even. I don't think I even have a magical number but I'd say somewhere around 20+ pitches and I might consider it a big wall. It's like the DNB down in the Valley. It's 23 pitches or something but doesn't feel like a big wall although RNWF on halfdome is definately a big wall even though it only takes an easy half day to get up it for most. I think it also probably depends on the style of climbing as well. The Nose goes free and at ~30 pitches I'd say its still a big wall but then there are climbs like Zodiac. At only 16 pitches it wouldn't make my cut but it's either extremely hard free climbing and mostly just aid for everyone else. So 16 pitches of harder aid tosses it back into a big wall for me. My $.02

Actually I think the only worth while climbing on the whole thing is pitch 18 and up. Although I'd disagree with otto on pitch 18 being bolted just right??? It is so annoyingly over bolted with 17 bolts you could do the whole pitch with two draws by leap frogging them as you climbed up. I don't see how a bolt every 3-4ft is just right especially on such easy ground. 1-15 are mind numbingly boring and can be simuled in about an hour. Its just the same repetitive move over and over on low angle rock. 16/17 is just unprotected Choss that I feel goes anywhere from 4th class to 5.9 depending on where you happen to wander around trying to find the anchors about 280ft up. Can you say "Retarded".

Don't forget 16.5 No anchor

I said the same thing after doing it a few years ago. It's not even a question of running it out, its common sense to have at a minimum anchors 200ft apart so you can actually rappel the freaking climb. Rappelling that much really sucks but it's surely worse when you have to unrope on the way down, pull your rope and then wander down 50-80ft to hit an anchor again. Ask MountainMatt about his last run up it. I think he pulled a watermelon size rock off while pulling his rope that nearly hit him while untied at that stupid pitch.

This is so funny. This argument comes up every year it seems like. Definitely go look at some of the spray on it from the past. Good TR by the way. Anyway, I think it's been beat into the ground that the climb is "so so" and probably worth an outing if you can handle the mass bolting scene. As for pitch 16/17 I remember this being brought up about 3-4yrs ago when somebody here said the same thing and ripped on Leland for the crap job on those pitches. Basically stupid pitches on crap rock with no bolts but that person got bashed for being some sporto noob or some usual cc.com garbage which is funny cause they weren't. Some people say run it out, others say grid bolt it. Either way you look at it you have 5 million freaking bolts slammed into the bottom 15 pitches, even pitches with single bolts on 5.1 and then almost 300ft of no bolts and not even any anchors to rap off. Just imagine doing those pitches in the rain. I can say the mandatory down climb can be quite exciting or should I stay stupid. I've heard stories as well about why it was bolted that way too, but you don't want to hear that one. So... Back to the same old bitching and whining as usual. Please continue its fun to read for the 12th time, hahaha.

dberdinka is right. Just bring a bike and leave that and some water at the base then drive over to the start of the trail head. There is no need for a second car, just suck it up and bike back. We even dropped a tent in case we made it back really late the following day and didn't feel like getting the car that night. All I can say is the gatorade we left with the Bike was the best I ever had

No troll. You got a drill and the time to go fix it let me know and I'll send you the money or the hangars. I got more than enough to fund any and all intermediate anchors anybody feels like. Seems like just as good a "point" made as whomever chopped them. "Carefully selected", do we have THE chopper in our midst??? So fuck your rhetoric and fuck you, theres your nice day, oh and those are my "carefully selected" words just for you I say again (which I have said before), you wanna make a point at Index go take a big fucking brush and scrub something. Clean up a classic, replace crappy existing hardware, do some trail maintenance. Chopping bolts anonymously is just cowardly and makes no point to anyone.

Assuming it was the same moron who chopped JG their level of stupidity seems to be continually increasing. I suspect before long they'll either die because they forget to breath or will be run over by a train as it passes by the crag while they lay out sunning themselves on the tracks midweek after another good anchor chopping. This f@cking dumb sh&t should just be banned from climbing or interacting with others altogether. That anchors will just be replaced but with better hardware this time round and whatever their point was will be lost on the nice new hardware that will make up yet another mid point anchor. If they want to make a statement there are a bunch of other things they could do to promote hard climbing, good style, better ethics or any number of positive things. Unfortunately they are such wusses they will never show their face and instead do nothing more than stir the pot and guarantee more anchors be put up. I see this causing not fewer mid anchors but more because we could probably use a few more out there. I'd like one half way up City Park for a short aid pitch if I feel like it and the final moves on Godzilla are way hard so toss in another one their before the double hand cracks start would be nice. I could also see another anchor or two easily on Princely, why don't we break up that awful traverse with another anchor and eliminate rope drag... Thank you and have a nice day

Yeah... As secret as the guide book you can buy for it now There is only one 13a/b that is really left for an FA and by the looks of the chalk on it I don't imagine it will be around for much longer. Anyway there are no bolts there so why would you "Kevbone" have interest anyway! Oooohhh Burn

Or go aiding at index. Thats always a good wet weekend climbing adventure.

It's why I'm heading to the Valley. Booooyahhh cry babies

I always thought Lynn Hills accent of the nose was the most impressive accent ever.....until Beth and Tommy stepped up in Oct. Then Tommy stepped up even higher and led over 60 pitches in 24 hours. The nose free and the one next to it. (cant remember the name). That was the most impressive rocking ever done. I don't think anyone can top Lynn Hills ascent of The Nose. What Tommy and Beth did is amazing as well but the route isn't what it used to be and never will be. You can continue to pile on more Free ascents of equal quality but there is something always attached to the FFA or FA. Anyway that is a different question entirely from what you posted which I think is vague at best (best being highly subjective). Who is to say Royal Robbins was not the best or that Bachar was not the most bold and best climber of his time. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to any of them though and as somebody mentioned there are so many types of climbing and special focuses it's too hard to say who is THE best. I mean take the Hubers. They sport climbed at the top of the game back when they were big into sport. They've done some of the hardest extreme alpine routes around the world, free climbed some of the biggest walls and speed climbed some of them the fastest. They've also done some of the craziest free soloing and been at the fore front for years. Then again so has Croft, Timmy O'neil and a bunch of other amazing climbers. Sharma is an amazing sport climber and could possibly be the best in his field but Dave Graham seems to tick more climbs than anyone but there are always new guys trying to tick the hardest routes or setting up new 5.Imaginaries. Tommy Caldwell is pushing the Big Wall Free climbing and has an amazing resume but again how do you choose the "best". Does climbing 60+ pitches in a day give you that, does spending 3 months hanging off the side of a Grade VII give you that? Should Trotter get it because of his high grade trad sends?

Too much walking for me. Back to the couch I go!

Head up to Midnight Rock. There are two OW's there that will give you a good kick in the face and when you are done with those you can jump on ROTC for a stellar crack!

Nice work, sounds like a fun trip. I'm headin for the valley in another week too. Nothing big this time down although the West Face might be fun to jump on, it looks like a better route than I had envisioned. Always nice to see some pics of the Valley.

Going to spend probably the next 10hrs in traffic trying to make it to Smith. Heading down with my wife and meeting a few other friends for sunny hot weather Saturday - Climb whatever doesn't have a line at Smith Sunday - Venture over to the secret super crack area Monday - Probably back to Smith and out to the columns area Tuesday - More Climbing Wednesday - Yet More climbing to make a long weekend longer. Thursday - Back to work.

I really haven't had any issues with people and their parties at skull hollow. The only thing thats ever bothered us was when some dumbass brings his stupid bongo drums and bongo's all freaking night. At that point though everybody, even those still up told him to shut up. It's usually windy and most voices doing carry, except for the bongos. Heck, most of the time people aren't always partying all night. I think the climber's bivouac is filled mostly with people who don't know the area and are traveling through for day hiking or maybe stopping to climb but are from out of town. If you want to meet other climbers and possibly find out more on Smith I say go to skull hollow.

I agree with the K-bone. Skull Hollow is the place to be. The walk-in place is for old farts wanting to play with all their newly bought REI crap. Why pay for camping when it's free and only about 2 minutes down the road. The place really isn't that much of a party zone anyway it's just a bit more lively some nights.

Dismiss it I will! You keep your pebbles, I'm fine with that

Man, I got all excited thinking about some new spot... Then I checked out the pics. Is is just pebble wrestling or are there any actual climbs? Very disappointing.

Screw it and just climb it. You're only a dick if you climb it just so you can name it. If you're snagging routes to do that then it's bunk. I jumped on and sent a supposed "project" crack route out in Tensleep a while ago. After sending it some guys came over and asked if I sent the crack which I said I did. Apparently it was some new 5.12 crack, whatever. Either way I enjoyed the climb, never said anything, and nobody probably cares. If it was the first true FFA then good for me. I didn't care if I named it, I mean give me a break. It was a freaking bolted sporto route... Who fucking cares. Go bag a new peak then worry about it. If you bolt something you better fucking send it same day the last bolt goes in otherwise I say it's all open.

Just to get my .02 worth. Dru made a good comment on placing pro to protect for different reasons like from minor injury or for major injury/death. I find myself putting in pieces with that in mind all the time. Sometimes on a hard route I'm plugging gear just to reduce the fall that will most likely happen and other times Im up running up some easy pitch that doesn't really need pro but dumping something in every 20ft or whatever run out distance feels ok. What I was going to mention though is while running it out on easy terrain is common you have to remember that if you place a piece every 20ft you should be 100% sure that its totally bomber. When guys like Chris Mac are running 40ft between gear to do the Nose in 6hrs with 10 cams I would bet that EVERY piece placed albeit run out would hold in the event of an 80ft whipper. So... A good tip is to sometimes double up your gear at those infrequent intervals. Sometimes if I'm moving fast and going longer distance between gear I'll quickly sink two pieces next to one another if I don't think the one is 100% bomb proof. You would hate to protect for a big fall only to have the piece fail and instead go for a death fall since you're next piece is another 20+ ft down Now it's not to say you need 2 pieces if you run it out, just that is something a lot of new climbers may not have thought about. I was following a buddy a while ago and cleaned two marginal placements which were on run out terrain. I told them their 15-20ft whipper would have most likely been double or triple since the piece probably would have failed. Other thing is this... If you are running out an easy pitch you'll probably have the extra gear to dump anyway and then cleaning is usually still pretty quick since it's only a couple more movements to pull two pieces at the same stance.