ScaredSilly

I remember looking over from Ptarmigan watching the a congo line going up LR. Something like 18 people. So for only 10 people on a holiday weekend I would say it was a wilderness experience. There were only 6 including us when we were on it and that was a couple of decades ago.

I agree with the head to toe version. Shoulder to shoulder sucks in a small tent like a Bibler I tent - at that point you totally lose the advantage of having two doors.

Actually, I whole hearty disagree about taking a bag that does not have some sort of coating. It is not inside out protection you want it is outside in. By the time the moisture gets to the outside from the inside it will have cooled and condensed anyways. The reason for the coating is for moisture from the outside. Once in a tent you can warm it up pretty quickly. Start cooking inside and it gets nice and warm. Then you partner blows the soup on the floor, etc, etc. Then there is all of moisture settling in during the night from your breath. Having some protection helps. As for skis and boots, I have used a pair of old One Sports and the Scarpa Phantom 8000 in Silvarettas. They work fine for transportation. Most people ditch skis at the base of Motorcycle hill anyways so it ain't you will be schussing down anything. Skip the ski crampons. If it get hard enough just walk you be hauling enough crap as it is. I am a fan the VBL for the feet. My partners are not. I agree about the sleds although I prefer drag bags. As for the using ski poles for the sled. What???? Unless you can find some really long poles to use, the sled will be riding your skis. The easiest thing to do is learn how to tie the sled in so it follows properly.

Ditto - Axe and a tool. I even schlep my ski poles up with me which was great for the other crap.

This description sounds accurate - somewhere I have photos from when I did the traverse 20+ years ago, also solo. I bivied on the ridge after skiing in about this same time of year. Cool bivy. I can not remember where I started the traverse around other than I went up fairly high. It was a band of snow with a bit of rotten rock which is the scariest part. This lead around to the bowling alley.

Here is another one ... turn around once in a while on the trip in and note the terrian. Ya never know when the way in is also going to be the way out. Even remembering a few things like that funny rock formation or monster crack can give enough of a mental clue of where's Waldo.

A couple of items to pass on: Bibler Eldo - got this from someone else I used it once before getting an I tent, has had some hard use by previous owner, highly desirable 2 door model, green in color, I had the several repairs fixed at the factory by BD (one on the floor two on the walls). Tiny pin holes in the floor that need to be sealed over. $275 OBO. Vasque Ice 9000s - Size 11, first generation, red in color, have about a dozen hills on them (all but one summit - so good karma), very good condition, no wear on the liners. $150.00 OBO

Correct, but also do not overly rely on electronics. Like people, batteries go dead. The same goes for even a compass. They too can go tits up. Read the F*CKing maps, descriptions, etc ahead of time and commit it to memory. Take copies along on the climb. The total reliance of GPS is BS try using the thing on top your shoulders besides something to hold your ears a part.

GPS - white out - essential?? Huh? Then how have so many in the past 100 years managed to get off the mtn. in a white out? WTF is that little thingy-a-bobber with a needle that points to the north called?

Actually, there is not much of a controversy. Several parties climbed the coulior in full to where it joins the Harward Route - but they did not or were not able to continue to the summit. Quirk and Nettle were the first to climb the coulior and continue to the summit. At the time a route was not considered finished till you got to the top. Now-a-days it seems anything goes. To me it really should be called the West Face Coulior variation of the Harvard Route. Especially given that the upper part of the route is probably harder than the coulior itself. Either way it does not diminish from the ascent - kudos.

The park is open, the road is closed, if you do a search you would find that it is predicted to be reopened 1 May. As for the weather horrible to rather pleasent. Pay your money take your chances.

Aussie69 ... a few years a I did hike into the park when the Carbon River road was closed. Only climbers on that side of the hill. I really can not understand your point on this - why should we as the general public give up our access to the park while someone who has a paid to be guided up the allowed in? The parks owe no obligation to any concession to ensure their livability the same as the government owes Boeing any obligation when a contract is not renewed. I do feel bad that folks are strugling, sure I do. And if got a chance to go into the park from the westside would I stop and have meal or something, more than likely. But what is difference between me and joe smuck touron who is doing a snow course with IMG?

Have to agree with CascadeClimber on this one. The parks are there for the people not for the concessions to make money. At least the park could do is a random lottery to allow others access to the mountain. No different than other parks with limited resource protections put into place. That I said I do agree perhaps at this point in time allowing personal cars up the might NOT be a good idea. Who is driving the rigs for the concessions? Perhaps the park should require for every two concession tourons they take 1 public touron (and be able to charge them a fair price for the ride).

Anybody done a review of his book? I am really really hoping it is better than the Falcon version. Of course after everyone's review it should not be too hard.

I have done the Ipsut approach 4 times for various north side routes. It is a nice alternative to WR. Coming back around from Schurman is good fun - last trip we saw a heard of goats and a bear, another trip some Ptarmigans (after doing Ptarmigan Ridge). Yeah it is a bit longer, but hey it is all training. I have also hiked in one March when the Carbon River Road was closed during the previous flood. It was not any big deal it added an extra 2 hours of hiking. So I guess I have done the math QED

Actually, the opposite. Brad took a lot of equipment with him often spending months on the glaciers surveying and photographing. What is amazing is that they schelped that gear all over the place including to the top of the peaks and managed to do things in good style. Most climbers today would be crushed by their style. I can not remember on which trip to Denali but they had just summited the South Peak and were camped at the Pass. It was a nice day so they decided to climb up to the North Peak - it was Brad's birthday. Both Brad and Barbara are remarkable people. Some of the other couple's like Bob and Gail Bates, and Ad and Ann Carter, Charlie Houston and his wife have done some amazing traveling. Their stories are wonderful glimpes into an era that is no longer.

One blue bird sunday in October of 1992 I climbed the CS route. I was the only person on the hill. It was quite amazing as the weather was wonderful as were the conditions - I decended the SS and still found no one. Though I did run into a few folks on Elliot Galcier on the way back. The Times article was a nice follow up.

Skip Utah and Ski Vail - sorry wrong forum. In Feb everything in under snow or wet. About the only place you will find something is perhaps in the Virgin River Gourge area.

Though I have meet all three IMG principles I would second the following - crowded route, easy to get off route, get a Zermatt guide and add the following - the rock is slick as snot when wet so getting down is where screws happen. Why a Zermatt guide, cause they are local and they will have more tricks up their sleave to get you the hill. If you want to other peaks that are less crowded then using IMG would fine.

Take your passport to safe as with the rules changing there is apt to be a cluster fuck going on on both sides of the border. Weekend do not feel bad about getting pulled out of the car. Happens to us each time as well. Porbably does not help that we cross the border at 2am in van.

Have no idea on that one. Could be the mixing of the term summit and summit ridge. One year I summited and meet two people coming down the south side who said they could not find the summit because of the clouds. Went I reached it I saw their tracks - they went right along the summit ridge and down to the Pearly Gates. The south side is in general easier to descend but then again if you can not find it then you go with what you know. They would have been seeing the Spur route all day.

Iain, thanks for sharing these photos they add a lot. This whole "Y" thing I found very odd. Your photo really clears things up. Two questions, at this point in time are can you give a description of where exactly this is? Also I notice in the lower right corner yellow rope or some thing - any explaination possible? Something folks might find of interest. In the fall of 92 or so I did a solo climb of Cooper's Spur it was a mix of snow and pretty hard ice. During the climb I found many sections of 1" diameter goldline rope. It was rotten as all get out. Some sections were buried in the ice others melted out. I pulled on one section which easily broke. I watched it fall to Elliot glacier below. The mountian has lots of stuff on it. Also what Iain refers to as the old summit shack was at one time a Forest Service fire lookout. Mt. Adams also has one that is still there as I remember. The rope I found was probably used in ascending the mtn. to the lookout. Copper's Spur is the most direct and quickest way up the mtn. It is also one of the most unforgiving if you fall.

This is a damned if you do and damned if you do not. When a storm hits you really do not know how long it is going to last. The mountains make thier own weather. It could be a blue bird day at Timberline but with high winds up top - winds that you can not always see because there are no clouds or the typical snow plumes coming off (snow plumes are formed by the wind picking up the snow). So here is the delima we have been stuck here for XX days and have run out of gas/water/food. If we stay here much longer there is no way we are going to make it through another night. We have enough strength but the weather is bad. WTF do we do?? I have been pinned on the top (~14k) of Rainier several times - with high winds (30-60 mph winds with no vis). Like with these climbers going back down our acsent route was not really a option and like these guys we had descent weather just an afternoon cloud cap came in. Though we knew the terrain to a certain degree (i.e had been in the area before but forgot one clue for the descent). As such we holed up (several climbers joined us - safety in numbers). The other time samething but different area. However, in both times in a tent but that does matter too much. The point is moving was not much of an option. becuase we were getting cold and wet. As soon as we could see (one case 3 hours latter, the other 18 hours later) we boogied out of there as soon as we could see well enough to move without falling into a crack (i.e creavse). So it is really a judgement call. Much of it falls under the title of group dynamics.

Here is some speculation. For the lack of any thought I just can not see these guys splitting up. For instance, if one was injuried why leave them alone when you have a cell phone to make an SOS call. Even with crappy reception - why not one climb to the summit place a SOS call and rejoin the others. I am sure they knew they were near the top. If one or more were exhausted near the summit I can see them digging two snow caves so they could get out of the wind and warm up. (Note this would before the storms). Digging multiple cave might seem odd but if it is windy you want to get out of the wind ASAP. Why they are not connected I could not answer. Kelly may not have realized his state and crawled into a cave by himself thinking he would be fine. Sunday night he calls and is not doing well. The storms then hit. They hang for saveral days. Saddly one pass away. The other two feeling they must move and take everything they really need and try to descend - but to get out of there they must go up first. Perhaps over but as I and others have said Cooper's Spur would be the most obvious. Some other thoughts - I can not see these guys leaving tools behind. You never want to that especially with unknown terrain. The tools and other gear found must be of the person in the cave. Leaving the rope surpises me though.

A couple notes on snow caves. As many have said they are primo when conditions suck. Having spent a few nights in one over the years, including on Hood here are a few thoughts. I would guess that if Kelly James is able to do anything he has been "developing" the cave with each day so that it is more comfortable and more protected. When you do not have much to do but wait it out things like this help out the mind and pass the time. If I remember correctly from my ascents of Hood, including the Spur Route. The NF gullies and the Spur route are in very close proximity and it is reasonable to traverse from the NF over the Spur which to me would be a logical descent, especially because they would have seen it on the way up. BTW Your storm is hitting us in Ootah tonight. I'll be skiing one for the boys tomorrow.