crackers

Honestly, as a pack manufacturer, I think you're nuts if you want to sew together a pack that will carry a climbing load and function as a bivy sack yourself. Unless you are a very experienced machine operator, with access to a walking foot sewing machine, I think you're going to have a lot of problems. You will be hard pressed to make a lighter pack than you can buy with the same durability for any given cost (because you buy fabric retail...) That said, here's some thoughts...just remember, its your fault if you die, ok? You really want a laminated fabric or keprotec. If its laminated, say dimension polyant vx21, it'll have the bare minimum of abrasion resistance necessary for a climber while being waterproof. Keprotec is waterproof, so you'd just have to figure out how to get it from schoeller. Either fabric is going to cost you at between $18 and $40 a yard depending on how good of a deal you get, and you'll need 2 yards i'd bet. You'll also need about 15 yards of webbing, either 3/4 or 1" depending on how you set up your compression system. Your problems are going to be the shoulder straps, bartacks and design. Honestly, i think you'd be better off buying something. You're going to spend about $150 on the materials, and to sew those materials, you really do want a walking foot sewing machine or you'll fry the motor and gears. Further, I doubt you have a significant weight savings over what you could buy.

I found that mike anderson posted his training strategy over on rc, and i think i'm going to use that for the climbing aspects. Now my question is whether i should do xfit hypertrophy stuff on the same days that i'm doing fingerboard hypertrophy or do those on alternate days...

i am not a phan of cell phones in the woods. that said, i'd use an aloksak to carry my, um, wallet in a waterproof bag.

Oh sorry, I meant that crossfit IS my power / GAET training, and i was looking for specific exercises to work out climbing specific recruitment... thanks for your thoughts...

No, I am not interested in doing 5.9s in the mountains. That's either too hard (Grey Thompson and his 5.9A2 routes in glacier come to mind) or too easy... While I have spent much of the past two years in a factory making backpacks, i did get out everyonce in a while to climb. I'm hoping to be back to leading 11 in the gunks again this spring and hopefully bring a good strong level to the mountains as well. I do my WODs but I know --from over 10 years as a competitive athelete of one type or another-- that i need to bring specificity in to play or I won't develop the necessary recruitment. I actually have been doing the all the V0s, followed by 3 minutes off, all the V1's type of stacking, but I really lack the understanding about the specific physiology of climbing to comprehend what I'm after in movement. For example, Performance Rock Climbing would have me doing 3-6 move problems to develop my recruitment. Is that enough? Honestly, I hate pulling on plastic when I'm in new york because i don't enjoy the gyms here. So I am looking for the most efficient regime to balance my power training and GAET training with a recruitment and climbing GAET foundation to build on as soon as it gets drier. Any other ideas downfall? Thanks in Advance...

Okay, I'm going to take it seriously this time. First off, I am a manufacturer. And I think my packs are totally superior to everything else, and they dance badly just like me. I make the lightest practical packs in the world, the most durable and the most adjustable and they're so cool, you'll have a better sex life if you buy three! Second, I think that pretty much only the desperate bastards are going to anonymously or similar post about their product. There are quite a few people representing the climbing industry on the web, from folks at petzl and trango to madrock and fiveten. I think there are several people making a good effort, but I hear a lot of folks in the industry slagging off forums and being generally scared of the internet. Its kinda strange to me. In larger markets, it might be worth it to hire some college students to make the type of raah rahh post that's under discussion here, but I don't think there is enough money in making climbing gear to make it worth while. Third, there is no shortage of spectra any more, and there haven't been for some time. DSM opened a new plant in North Carolina over a year and a half ago, and it just isn't true that there is a shortage of spectra. On the other hand, the mill that makes the fabric for certain pack companies charges a couple of grand just to think about making fabric. So, before you spend $15-20k on fabric, you want to make sure you can sell as much of it as possible. Cheers, Crackers edit: left off the last 's' for shthead! thanks wanker!

can't spell today. sorry. Anybody have any bright ideas for integrating climbing specific--ie climbing gym--workouts with crossfit? I'm just doing my crossfit either after or at another time of the day, and matching my endurance climbing to power crossfit. Any thoughts / comments?

The best sources of climbing information in turkey are only available in turkish. I need the following to answer your question fully: 1) style: FA's, sport, limestone trad, alpine, hard alpine, snowslog? 2) time of year. 3) amount of time. There are some existing multipitch sport routes near nigde. map of the regions shows a little about Nigde. I don't know if its available in the english variant. The stuff on 8a is pretty old and crappy, imho, and it covers an area called geyikbayiri which has two climbing camping spots, one run by germans and the other by a turkish/belgian (? on whether zulehya is belgian or what) couple. These are the germans. The Turks are here. Both of them are really really nice people. The germans are german, the turks are much more bohemian, but both are doing there best to develop the area in the best possible way. There is amazing potential for safe* alpine climbing both in the aladaglar (that's near nigde), and in the northeast near trabzon in the kackar. Unsafe first ascents--if you can get a permit which is highly unlikely and if you don't have a permit you will get arrested--can be had in the Cilo-Sat mountains. (one guess for how my company got the name...). For skiing, I have to assume you go b/c and that you'll bring a friend or two. There are only 10-15 transceivers outside of the military, and the folks who have them probably won't have time when you do. There are three ski areas currently under development or construction (one is near antalya, one is near izmit, and one is somewhere else.) If these open, they will add a lot to whats there. Palandoken is kinda cool, but the development sucked--a frequent refrain throughout the country. There are three areas that are *almost* worth trying: uludag, erciyes and kartalkaya. Each of these areas has some really really worthwhile backcountry that can be fcking scary. Are they worth leaving baker for? not except for part of a larger trip. There are amazing unsupported traverses that you can do though. And some amazing backcountry that takes a lot of logistics and a lot of patience. Let me know which direction you're thinking and i'll post a specific long version.

The thing about the patterns that ems uses in my experience is that they are not forgiving for technical users: they fit perfectly or not at all. Its like its made to fit 1 particular technical user and then 99 couch surfers, and you'll never know if you're the lucky one unless you try it on. I prefer schoeller fabrics over their gore tex competitors across the board.

I agree about packing efficiency, but there is a limit. If you're six inches shorter than me, your sleeping bag will be smaller than mine. It's funny to me, because the variability is really rather limited. Half a tent is still half a tent, you know? A 1 liter pot is the same size as a 1 liter pot... There are some good reasons, speaking as a pack manufacturer, not to include the extension in the 'named' volume of the pack. I try to include all the 'normal' possible volumes of the pack in my propaganda, but I have to guess that 85% of my customers don't regularily use the pack with the extension totally full. I would say that my 60 liter pack is 60 liters, not the 90 liter capacity it is when you stuff it up to the extension collar. I argue this because the suspension and the compression are designed around the bottom 60 liters, not that top 30. There are actually a few brands that I've measured that include the extension without telling anybody. I don't like that.

1) There is an ANSI standard on how you're supposed to measure the volume of packs. Honestly, I think it's a bad standard because it's expensive to do and a bit silly. I wish we could all measure volume with Petzl bags or ropes or something... 2) If you're 6'2", do not under any circumstances buy a small pack and try to make it fit. Your clothing and sleeping bag are on the border between enormous and gargantuan. I'm over 6'4" and I just can't use smaller packs under the conditions you describe. My sleeping bag is just too big for a 60liter pack...I have to use a 90 liter to fit that puppy in (western mountaineering large bighorn sdl).

Hold on about four hours and I should have that fixed. I think you tried to email info@cilogear.com which I screwed up when I set up the site on my new host. I use cilogear@gmail.com because, honestly, gmail is a far better solution for me than using my webhost's pop servers. I doubt that whidbey tried that email because I haven't gotten it. The info email address will be ciloinfo@gmail.com. It should be all ok by tonight.

I emailed the guy from RC.com when this whole thing started. He wrote me that he was trying a hard lead (for him) and wanted pictures because he'd fallen there many times on TR before trying the lead. So one of his friends was clicking away with the digital... Its pretty common to put a small but distinguishable mark on each jig/person/workshop 's product to track who's doing what (im)properly. I do it with my packs.

One comment. I ship stuff all the time to and from Europe. I am shipping (often but not always) to and from New York City, so your mileage may vary. DHL sucks donkey poo in delivering in the USA. It's fantastic in turkey, but for some reason, their setup especially here in NYC sucks sucks sucks. UPS is totally superior in delivering in the USA in my experience. (if anybody cares, in my experience they're comparable in Europe.)

I've bought several thousand us dollars of stuff from T-P over the years (think avy gear for 15 people: probes, poles, pieps, shovel; literally.) and never had a problem with them.

Really? What is the story then? Did he come back after his first attempt? Were you there? My friend did freerider and then they worked on another route and then they left. The polish guy could have come back. Honestly, I wasn't there and I don't know. I've just seen the pictures my friends (two americans and a swede) took and talked to other people who were on the wall at the time. Please do tell. It's not my ego, I'm just curious.

This polish guy was below my friend cody who did freerider this fall. Apparently he onsighted almost all of the route, real smooth and powerful in like a day. He then got totally and completely shut down by the offwidth. Apparently, blood, screams and tears over many days. I heard that he just gave up after losing a pint of blood in the thing and swore he was never going back to yosemite. Cody has some funny ass pictures of the guy.

i do it at home about half the time. I basically do tabata that or one of the other workouts without real weights. I've been doing it for a couple of months now. I can't say what results from just doing it at home would be, but for the past month and a half, i've been crossfitting all by myself since our group is homeless right now. It works. Its definitely better with a bunch of folks with psyche, but doing tabata that is miserable enough that i'm sort of happy not to have anybody around...

If its for a course and its part of the 'recommended equipment', i'd look into the following: university rec clubs you might be able to rent from, buying a second hand pack, or finding something on super saver deal. As many here know, I make packs. I personally use a bozeman vintage astralplane ok for one of my big bags, the other is my prototype for my company in that size. The astralplane weighs about 9 pounds. The thing about packs that size is that you have to use stronger fabric, frame materials and then the weight balloons--especially for tall people. If you were going to use the pack a lot, I think the $600 you'd pay for a McHale would be well worth it in comparison to the $350 - 400 that you'll spend buying one off the rack, from gregory, osprey or whomever. The real thing is going to be how it fits you and how it feels when you sweat. YMMV, good luck.

5500+? That's huge. Are you going to use it alot? If you are, honestly, I'd recommend giving McHale a call and getting a custom pack made. It won't cost that much more than buying something off the rack, and you'll be much much happier I'm willing to bet. I have been thinking about making such a pack, but they're so damn big, i'm not sure how many people would be interested in buying them.

Thanks for the positive feedback. According to my model (turns to mirror: 'model? what model?'), I should be able to keep these prices going when i have more than just part time employees here in the states. Most of the cost is in the sewing for sure. It's crazy whenever I think about how we made them. For the first production run i think it took 15 or 16 days to make 200 bags, and my production manager has been making packs and gore tex jackets and anything else for over 15 years. In the same factory, with the same crew, we made 300 technical fleece 6 pocket jackets in 4 days.

Qualified? Shoot. I doubt I'm qualified to use them these days. Since I decided to make them, I got engaged, gained 23 pounds mostly of fat, and can't climb for crap. Now, I'm not saying I want to be north face, but i am definitely not going to be running a qualification camp to get to use these packs. But that would be funny, wouldn't it? What kind of test first? ?

I'd bet that Gabriel either works for schoeller or manufacturers stuff with it in close association with schoeller. I've been buying schoeller fabrics for about four years and that's by far the best explanation I've seen written down about the different fabrics. The only place I've gotten the CFM ratings for the different fabrics is directly from my rep in switzerland. Dynamic comes in Extreme (ie with Cordura) as well, and can be poly-cotton instead of just poly. I'd bet that your mammut WB400 jacket would be windproof up to the 50 mph range where you really want a hard shell.

tabata that. after lying in bed for three days, its all i can manage. ...or at least i'll get the rest of it puked out!

Yeah. I have a few hundred. Ok, so that's not that funny, but, hey, I'm still recovering from new years eve. My name is graham williams. I own cilogear and make those packs. In response to your questions, as far as I can: 1) Who has them? Well, for the past year, not many people; we're a new company. There are about 20 of them living in Montana, Wyoming and Colorado. There are another twenty or so around Salt Lake City. There are a handful in California and a bunch in the North East. People like Kelly Cordes and his ilk have been using them and if you know Kelly, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you why he thinks they're great bags. 2) "Unapoletic technical design". Hmm. That's a bit harder. Here's a go: I looked at all the packs for climbers on the market and I wasn't too cycked on what I saw. I always ended up cutting off straps that were extraneous to my usage and wondering why the damn things were so heavy. I wanted total compression of the sides without zippers or velcro. I thought that different parts of a pack are exposed to different levels of abrasion and different loads, and should therefore have different strengths of material. Our goal in designing these packs wasn't to make something easy to manufacture, but to make something perfect to use. Or at least as close as possible. For example, the large worksack has 146 structural bar tacks. We use three different strengths of thread. I have told other folks in this industry this kind of detail and they want to puke: the average 60 liter pack has less than 20 bar tacks. Whenever I've talked to another company about their product, we get to the point where they're like, well, we had to make this change so we could make them or we had to make this change so we could market them to the whatever community. I haven't had to make those apologies yet. (and when i do, i'll change that tag line.) Does that make any sense? 3) Unfortunately, it is more or less true that we built these packs from available fabric. Each of the packs uses 7 different materials: a Schoeller Dynamic for the places where loads touch your body, two weights of spectra/hi tenacity nylon (210 in the side panels, 500 in the high abrasion points), a nylon ripstop for the extension and the liner, and three different weights of Dimension-Polyant's VX series cloth (VX51 on bottom, VX42 on the crampon pouch, and VX21 on the side wings). Beyond the obvious business sense of keeping low inventories, I honestly can't afford to order over 5,000 yards of material every time I want to make some bags. The minimum dye lot for the pack cloths--the spectra and the VX stuff--is 800 yards. Please keep in mind that a pack uses at most .27 yards of those particular fabric, and often much less. So i buy from the fabric manufacturer's stock programs, which are generally kinda slow and a bit unreliable. They much prefer to make 15,000 yards for Mr. Big than deal with my 1,500 yard order. Any other questions? I'm happy to answer them either on this forum or via email... cilogear at gmail.com is the best for email. BTW, if there is a Mr(s). Reviewer over here on CC, I'd be happy to supply a pack for them to test.