gary_hehn

sorry u 2. didn't stumble across any wills up there, but i did stumble! pretty interesting logging detritus to negotiate during the short approach. we did comment on how those loggers did their job well.

Let me know what you lost so that I can get it returned to you.

I believe they were called "Rock'n Rollers". Late 70's early 80's. Maybe a Lowe product, not sure. Seems that some of these early ones were a bit sketchy. A friend of mine tried some and reported mixed results and quit using them. Some neat info at http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/camsstory.htm

One great trick I just remembered for top-roping is to run the rope through a piece of one inch tubular webbing to protect it as it runs over a rough surface.

I've been using 8.5 doubles for about 14 years now. I have had no problem using them as top ropes, but I do highly recommend that you use care, as with any rope, in watching what you drag them over. I trashed one early on very quickly although, I believe its sheath was flawed. One 60m double rope doubled for fourth class and low fifth simul-climbing has worked very well for me - you have the security of double ropes and can usually keep in verbal contact with your partner due to the shorter separation distance. This has worked well on more moderate climbs such as East Ridge of Ingalls, West Ridge of Forbidden, and East Ridge of Forbidden.

The climbing shoes that I found were returned to their owner 13sep in exchange for a six pack. Thanks for the Alaska Amber David, it hit the spot!

Let me know what you lost so that I can get it returned to you.

Welcome to North LA!

Okay, back to rangers. A group of us used to have an unofficial unorganized run/walk from the Gallatin Valley in MT over Fawn Pass to the Yellowstone Valley. It goes through a corner of Yellowstone National Park that required permits for camping. Over the years as word got out it became more and more popular and the park circus caught wind of it. Finally one year there were at least fifty of us. At the end of the run/walk at about the twenty-one mile mark there were Park Rangers on horseback rounding us up and escorting us to the "finish line." The "Park Circus" rangers really were pretty amiable about the situation although, it was very strange being rounded up the way we were and made one think how bad it would be in a less friendly environment. There were some lawyers in our group, one of them actually the county attorney from the county we ran from! It was a kick listening to them discussing (or is that disgusting) what the legal options were. The circus really didn't have that much on us as we were theoretically unorganized and not staying the night. Generally, we understood that they weren't crazy about a crowd of people running through someones pristine permit required wilderness experience. They tried to tag us with not being in groups of four in grizzly country, but how were they going to prove we weren't in groups of four? They ended up fining us for conducting an organized run, which we felt we could also have argued as we really were just a bunch of people that happened to show up at the same time. They half jokingly gave us the option of fining each of us individually or just one. The one that took the hit was the pseudo-organizer and we all pitched in to a jar to cover the fine; he joked later about making money on the deal.

They're keepers as far as I'm concerned! It's the cleanest magazine out there, period, and it covers our stuff! I hope it makes it ... it's beautiful.

Yes Paul and goatboy, walking could be part of the issue. But, I'm thinking even more generally and in the context of rappeling from a camming device. Which, by the way, I have never done. But, never say never. Hopefully it would at least have a reasonable backup. As has been stated, why would I do that anyway if I have something far less expensive and at least as suitable to leave behind? I always carry a range of six tricams in my rack plus the two pitons previously mentioned. I agree, but then how many placements are we considering leaving behind, two, three? And yes, good cam placements are hard to beat and nearly always reliable. What ever you are using, I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you are trusting your life to it! This may be more of a personal thing, but personally I would not be comfortable rappeling from a single cam placement no matter how good it looked. Think about it, how can you really know how good the placement of a cam is. A good place to experience this uncertainty is on Ingalls Peak. I believe the polished rock there is serpentine. You can make a stellar cam placement there and it will simply pull out with little effort. Now, of course, Ingalls presents an extreme, but it shows that what looks good when it comes to cams isn't neccessarily so. I have seem good placements pull from dusty granite. I guess there are no real guarantees no matter what you use. Although, as I stated earlier, I believe a wedged piece is easier to evaluate and determine to be good. You can at least be certain that something has to shear for there to be a failure, not just simply slip or walk out of position. Again, I'm not necessarily suggesting that it should never be done; I'm just suggesting that one should be WARY of it. And of course, if you're in a pinch and that's all you've got. Well then, that's all you've got. Hope I'm never in that pinch.

All of this reminds me of the book, Angels Four or is it Angels Five, one of the best climbing stories I've read. In it they describe how desperate they are towards the end of the descent, I believe it took a number of days of rappeling and down climbing. Anyway, they got to the point where all they felt they had left to use as an anchor sling was a shoe lace. When they completed the rappel and went to pull the rope it broke through the lace!

Also, be wary of active cams as anchors! It is difficult to assess just how good a purchase they really have. A wedged piece is easier to evaluate and determine to be good.

I always take a couple smaller sized pitons with me that I could hammer into a small crack in case there is nothing better. This, of course, would not be helpful in every situation, but it does give one more options. I don't carry a hammer for this. I assume I will be able to find a rock or something else to hammer them in with.

I remember in the 70's when folks started using the stuff in MT. I wasn't sure exactly what it was that they were using. So, on the way out one day I stopped by the grocery store and picked up some baby powder. Sure enough, it made the rock as smooth, and slippery, as a baby's butt!

Agreed. Although, Eric Horst claims that it is difficult to increase your absolute grip strength even by climbing a lot. His explanation is that you need repetition using the same grip and it seems to make sense. I guess the verdict is still out on that one.

Unless you are wanting to get philosophical about this, I'm thinking you mean plateau. You gotta know there are unlimited resources/sources for suggestions out there! I really am no elitist, but my suggestion would be chin ups (frenchies for endurance), rope climbs, and Eric Horst's book Training for Climbing has some great ideas and exercises. I still feel rather lame myself, but I have experienced improvement from said suggestions, especially in feeling more comfortable about not blowing my fingers out while climbing (see Eric's book and the HIT workout for this). What ever you do, ease into it to avoid injury. That's my put. Others out there, I'm sure, can do better than this and I would be interested in getting their suggestions as well.

Jolly well done sport! Now that's good mountaineering comradeship at work. Glad the fellow below was okay.

That's Hehn pecked!

I like and have used Tiblocs too, but they can get jammed up with ice and loose their effectiveness. That was exactly my point Divot! Once you know the z-pulley set up, which according to you is Duh .... simple, then knowing how to apply a second z-pulley should be no problem for you, right, duh ... simple. What are you writing anyway. Crevasse Rescue Gear for 2 for Duh...mies. Remember, learning is Duh ... simple if you already know the material or almost know it. If your writing the book for folks that don't already know the material, you may want to keep that in mind. Oh, and remember crevasse is spelled with two s'es! Good luck with the book!

While it may be a duh......, it is not described in Self-Rescue by David J. Fasulo. Instead examples of 5:1 and a 7:1 systems are described, both of which I feel are more difficult to remember. And only the 3:1 and 5:1 systems are described in any detail in FOH.

Keith, add two more biners and a prusik and you can set up a 9:1 by z-pulleying your z-pulley.

Here's how I try approaching trade routes and popular/busy climbs. First - if possible, avoid them on busy daze. Second - mentally prepare yourself for the "zoo". Third - if you don't feel that it is safe, leave; I have done this. Also, prepare mentally for this possibility. Fourth - try to enjoy the outing for what it is worth and try to make it enjoyable for all around you otherwise, it's hardly worth being there. As far as idiots go, they're a fact of life. But, they are interesting in their own way and have their own stories as well, just don't let them get you hurt or killed. If they're open to suggestions, help them out. Otherwise, steer clear. Unfortunately, as you know, posting about them on this site is like preaching to the choir - it is a good place to vent though, I have to admit. Still, there will always be idiots out there.

Yes, Nick, I've been thinking the same thing while reading through this thread. I generally try to avoid gullys as much as possible. Especially in the rain or during snow melt, as you say. Any place where terrain dumps its garbage is a good place not to spend a lot of time. There was a large fresh cut for a road that I knew about that consisted of a dirt rock mix. I sat across from it in the rain a few times just to watch things come apart and crash down the slope. I can also imagine the same affect as a result of water percolating through one of those dirty gullys.

While there is always an element of risk, this incident seems somewhat out of the norm in that those most at risk are generally either beginners or those pushing the limits. I guess a major lesson is that where it matters never let down your guard and question everything, and encourage those with you to do the same. Maybe they felt pressured for time or lost some critical focus due to Jo's injury - just speculation, but one can imagine this possibility. I had a friend loss his life to an anchor, a very large boulder, that had been used regularly at a climbing area in Montana. Condolences to all affected by this tragic incident.