AR_Guy

So where can we find out when this closure is lifted? I looked around a bit on the WDFW web site but couldn't find anything obvious. I'm VERY interested in climbing Royal Columns this year. The high concentration of low grade (5.6 and under) trad routes are calling this total newbie trad leader.

Check out some of the local Orienteering clubs. http://www.cascadeoc.org/ is a good place to start. Click on their training link - looks like there's a class April 7th at Pt. Defiance. Do some of the orienteering meets to get some practical experience with map and compass. Also do some of the permanent courses on your own. Another good choice for navigation practice is the evening, short (~3 to 4 hour long) Beast adventure race series. http://www.mergeo.com/beast/ They're also fun, with good folks. I'll ditto what Jamin has to say on off trail day hikes being good practice - pick a place you're already familiar with and that has good maps (Tiger Mtn was my self training ground) for starting out, before moving up in difficulty. Try to go from one trail cross country to another trail and hit a particular bend dead on, for example. I'd suggest a compass with a declination adjustment feature - then you don't have to worry about the difference between true and magnetic north.

Try Body Glide - worked great for me on the PCT last summer. 12+ hour days hiking in up to 100 degree heat makes for lots of sweat. Works well on monkey butt (sweat between the cheeks is a killer) and anywhere else you'll start to chafe. Apply liberally on potential problem areas for prevention, or as needed to treat chafe. Should be able to find it at the evil empire or stores that cater to runners / triathletes.

Yeah - that IS a fun climb. I'm definately going back there and do it again. Next time I hope to lead the whole thing and do it with some style. We had the full set of gear - cams down to 0.3 and a full set of nuts from 4 to 13. Roboboy actually placed the smallest nut as the first piece heading up the 3rd pitch. I just didn't notice the opportunities in the more direct line. I guess it's part of the learning process - to spot those less than blatently obvious spots for pro on a slabby climb. I suppose I could have extended the pieces more - as it was, I had a sling on them. I totally agree that the first pitch dihedral is sweet - I really enjoyed that section. I also really liked the crux sequence. All in all a very fun, fairly graded climb.

Yeah, it WAS a lot of drag (that's my sorry butt out there). What can I say - I'm a newb trad leader and got off the best line (which is easier to do relative to clipping bolts). That being said, I think I placed solid pro and made it up to the snag and the next belay safely. Part of the learning experience. Roboboy pointed out after the fact that the lower, more direct, line was quite protectable. At the time, I didn't notice the small features he referred to (I fixated on the larger, more obvious opportunities to place gear higher up), but again, chalk it up to inexperience. Next time out, I'll know better. Zig Zag on Eire is a fun route and fairly rated at 5.7 (the crux move on the next pitch compared quite well to 5.7 routes at Stone Gardens). This section and the first pitch was a grade or two below that. The view from up there on Saturday was amazing. Weather - what more can you ask for on January 27th. Makes me wish we'd gone back there on Sunday instead of out to Exit 38 which was cold with howling wind.

Regarding the pad: Check out the Gossamar Gear pad (as mentioned previously). Used one on my PCT thru hike the summer of '06. 7 ounces. Lasts longer and more comfortable than the ridge rest. Pack: Meant for hikers (eg - don't know how well you could climb in it), but check out the Granite Gear Vapor Trail. Probably the single most popular pack on the PCT. 2 pounds, reasonably priced, rugged construction (far more durable than the sil-nylon rucksacks) with a great suspension. Very comfortable with 30-35 lb loads or less (and does OK with 45 lb, although I don't recommend it). You can make a 1/2 ounce stove for next to nothing. Google 'pepsi can stove' - the top few hits will point you to the 'standard' stove used by thru / long distance hikers. I used one for 5 1/2 months twice a day. Far more weight efficient for a few day (summer) trip than white gas. Another alternative is to use esbit tabs. Melt snow for water in a black garbage bag. I'd suggest looking at the weight reduction of an item and divide the cost of the change by the weight savings to get a dollars per ounce number. Hit the high value items first.

KM - Intended use is leading. I wouldn't feel comfortable experimenting on life critical gear (although I admit I've thought about it and decided to pass). MP - I considered re-slinging as the nylon is 8 years old with an unknown (to me) storage history. I also read on the instructions (I think that was the location) on the couple new C4's I have that clipping a 'biner directly to the loop drops the strength rating a couple of kN. With that background.... You make a good point on doubling a sling through the loop. So, I presume doubling a new 22kn rated, 9/16" spectra sling through the loop and clipping to this would be just as strong as (or stronger than) a 'proper' sewn on sling? I ask as the cable loops are awfully small diameter, much smaller than the surface of a 'biner, which would tend to weaken the sling with the tight bend radius, right? Is this effect significant, or am I just being paranoid?

I have the opportunity to buy a rack of older (5 to 8 years old) camalots from a trusted source. Only been placed a few times (if ever), never fallen on. Sizes 3 down to 0.5 and 4, 3 and 2 in the 'micro cams' as he calls them. How do these older camalots comapre to the current C4's and C3's? I want to understand the pro's (without a doubt, price) and con's of the older models vs. buying new. Also - I searched the last year and couldn't find a topic on reslinging. Is there a local shop that re-slings gear with sewn webbing? I figure I'd want to replace the webbing on these cams if I buy them.

While interesting, I doubt this would be very useful for long backpacking trips. The real metric that correlates with energy expenditure is total pack weight. All this claptrap would just add to pack weight. Lighter total weight = easier hiking. A good suspension insures that all the weight is on the hips anyways, not your shoulders and back. I used a Granite Gear Vapor Trail this year while doing the PCT (yeah, all 2600+ miles of it) this summer - 2 pounds with an excellent suspension at a reasonable price. Last thing most other PCT thru hikers would have needed (or wanted) is the extra pounds that a system like this would weigh. Just more dead weight to haul up the hills, more stuff to break.

Use a very sharp drill bit and tape the area you're going to drill to reduce the fibers tearing out of the plastic / resin matrix. Also, back up the piece you're drilling through so you don't blow out the back with drill pressure and tear out a bunch of fibers from the matrix. Be sure to leave plenty of edge margin - at least 2 and preferrably 3 times the fastener diameter from the edge of the pieces you're joining, otherwise the joint is susceptible to failure by tearing out the line of fasteners. Select bolts / bits such that you have a snug fit of the bolt in the holes, and pick your bolts so that the threads don't bear on the pieces being joined. Use smooth shank bolts and washers as needed to achieve this. Don't overtighten the bolts or you can crack the plastic resin that supports the fibers, weakening it greatly. Regarding Trogd's comments: For joining thin pieces, adhesive is superior as noted. For joining thicker pieces (1/2" and up, roughly) of composites, bolted joints (when designed properly) can be stronger (strong adhesive joints for thick pieces get VERY complex). As noted, a doubler or adhesively bonding on reinforcing material around the joint before fastening it together is a good idea. Be sure that the fibers in the doubler run in multiple directions (N-S, E-W and NW-SE, NE-SW - to use points of the compass as direction indicators). Having fibers in these directions tends to make a piece of composite material stronger when it has a bolted joint.

After taking this summer off from climbing to hike the PCT (which kicked ass, btw), I’m looking to get back into climbing. Before I left for the summer, I led lower grade sport (5.7-5.8, Mostly Exit 38, a little at Vantage) and had followed at Tieton and Vantage in cracks a few times (and loved it). Goals by the end of summer ‘07: Generally increase my climbing skills / ability, especially in cracks, learn to lead trad and all that implies, do my first alpine climb, and purchase a trad rack (so I don't have to mooch gear). I’m looking to spend time in the gym (Stone Gardens is my preferred) over the winter (evenings after work), taking advantage of outdoor opportunities on weekends as weather allows. Come next spring / summer, I’d like to spend quite a few weekends at Tieton and Vantage (or L’Worth, Smith, or wherever in the NW) in/on the cracks. My attitude is pretty casual. I’m out to ENJOY climbing, not having it turn into work. That being said, I want to get better and will put in the effort. So, I guess what I’m looking for is someone willing to take on a guy who came to climbing late (I’m later 30’) who’s a relative newbie climber who wants to step it up a level.

Does anyone have a link (or can reply) with an illustrated guide showing the proper way to use / shorten / attach an ice axe leash? You know, so that it's pretty much taut when you're grabbing the axe head in the self belay / self arrest grip? The intended use of this info isn't for technical mountain climbing per se, but for crossing the high Sierra passes (Forrester, Muir, etc.) on the JMT / PCT during typical thru hiker season (~2nd 1/2 of June). If I slip and have the axe planted firmly, I don't want to nearly have my arm yanked out of my shoulder with a several foot fall before the leash goes tight. Similarily, if the axe pulls, having the axe bouncing around at the end of 2 or 3 feet of leash while I slide - well that would tend to waste critical time needed for arresting the slide. Thanks in advance......

There's extensive discussion on the PCT-L (look on the PCTA web site for the PCT-L) regarding alcohol stoves. Search their archives on the topic, it'll be informative. They're very popular with the long distance backpacking crowd as mentioned above. I've used one for the last several years on week long backpacking trips with great sucess. As for fuel: Thru Hikers generally look for either HEET or Iso-HEET at the gas stations when resupplying (which is usually the most available kind of stove grade alcohol), or if they can get it, the denatured alcohol sold in paint stores or the marine stuff CBS mentioned. I've made the soda can stove and the cat can stove. I've found that the cat can works best for my particular set up, but your performance may vary. Note that alcohol stoves generally work best for solo hikers who don't need large amounts of hot water. I only use a pint of hot water each in the AM & PM and for that it's OK. If you're going to melt snow, or drink lots of coffee / tea or need lots of hot water, it's generally not the best choice. Also note that they can be a real fire hazzard if accidently knocked over - burning alcohol with an invisible flame will go everywhere.

First - Joesph H. Sweet.....You have a set dude to just get out there not knowing.....must be amazing. Perhaps one day....... I just see all these routes in the books and SOMEONE, as you said, had to just go for it. I see trip reports of folks on this site and the real epics are sweet - I guess it's cool to live vicariously (?sp) through reading about others experiences. Ditto on the FA questions. Also, I'm an engineer for a living and I'm always interested in the 'how'd they do that' for stuff I've never done or don't know how to do. I see all these routes out at 38 that are way over hung and...how'd they do that? I looked through the Tieton guide book, expecially those multi-pitch routes...again, I had the question of how'd they go about pioneering it. Thanks again for the reply Joseph H. SOBO - The AR in AR_Guy is from how I backed into starting climbing - Adventure Racing. For the ropes sections in the longer races - usually a rappel, but sometimes a traverse and rarely an ascent, I had the harness, ATC, some biners, etc. Since I didn't want to be at the top of a 100' cliff, with possibly a section of free rappeling in there, and choke up due to lack of practice, I got a rope. OK - well, may as well be dynamic, then I could climb on it. I heard about the trestle out at 38, took some private instruction from one of the local gyms on how to build anchors (redundand, equalized, etc) and rappelling and headed out to practice. First time going over the side there....lets say the pucker factor was pretty high. By the 5th time over the edge, I was having fun. Last race I did with a rappel was off the top of a 9 story parking garage in downtown Portland - talk about a blast. Snaggin few slings, extra biners and climbing shoes and I was set up to top rope out at exit 38 - sweet, this is fun. Hey, I got to try some of that lead climbing stuff....some draws and then I learned to lead. Regisetered here on CC and found a couple of folks to climb with in addition to the folks I AR with. I hope to get out to Tieton with one of the climbing partners here in the near future and climb some crack routes - I'm looking forward to giving that a try. The book shows plenty of lower grade routes - perfect for begineers I hope. I'll hold off on getting trad gear for a while though - If all goes well, I'll be hiking the PCT next year, so I won't have a chance to learn it proper until '07.

Thanks for the non-smart aleck replies Slothrop and Ireno. I guess I’m too ignorant to understand the water and mercury comments…… I suppose I should have prefaced the questions with the following: I’m a newbie climber – I’ve only been at this since November of last year. The only real rock I’ve climbed is at Exit 38 – so the only thing I know (so far) is sport climbing (one of these days I hope to get out and try some crack climbing). Hence, all the routes are, by definition, bolted. Some of the routes at exit 38 (those way above my level) are incredibly (to my eye) overhung – some of those 11’s & 12’s. Hence, to this newbies eye, would be an incredibly dangerous climb before being protected. Hence the questions – how does one FA one of these routes (the highly overhung, etc) before the bolts are in place? (and the bolt as you go question.) I also just picked up (last Friday) the ‘Tieton River Rocks’ guide by Ford and Yoder. In the intro / history section (pages 9-13) there’s the discussion of the new route development in the 80’s, along the first sport routes on Honeycomb and the addition of bolted routes on pillar faces (between the crack routes). There’s also discussion of new walls and the routes developed on them, specifically in regards to the “declining first ascent opportunities at the established cliffs”. Looking through the guide, there’s lots of entries labeled ‘project’. Well, to this ignorant newbie, that kind of leads to the questions of how some one who FA’s a trad route goes about it. What do you look for? Do you scope it from above first? Top rope it first time up (assuming you can get to the top by some other means)? What if the crack is so long, it would be a multi-pitch climb to get to the top? Do you just climb up from the base knowing you might have to abandon gear if you don’t make it to the top and need to lower off? Yadda, yadda, yadda…… Bottom line, if SOMEONE hadn’t FA’ed and bolted the sport routes I’ve climbed at exit 38, I’d never have climbed. I asked because I’m curious and wanted to know how others have done it, not because I wanted to do it (hell, I have enough troubles with 5.9’s – no way in hell I’m going to head up an unknown slab/face wall, with unknown difficulty, with no ability to protect myself from my too frequent falls anytime soon). It’s damn impressive that there are folks out there who have the nuts and are lookin’ for the rush of doing a FA. For the foreseeable future, I’m content to follow……

So how do you experienced folks go about doing FA's? Specificially, I'm asking more about sport climbs (trad seems straight forward enough - find a crack and climb it - yes, I realize there's more to it that that). So what do you do, find a good spot to top rope a future sport route, climb it, mark where the bolts ought to go, then come back and set the bolts? What do you do if there's no good spot to protect either from above with a top rope, or cracks or other features to set pro in to lead a FA? Drill and bolt as you go?

Check out Henry Shires Tarp Tent http://www.tarptent.com/ The Virga 2 with sewn in floor is about 30 ounces. This is one of the more / most popular shelters with PCT thru hikers, which, in the main, are total ounce nazis. If pitched properly (foot into the wind) it'll hold up in 30MPH breezes quite nicely. Also does well in the rain. An advantage of this particular shelter vs other tarps without any bug netting is that it's about 99.5% bug proof - one or two might get thru when they're swarming outside. Sets up in a couple of minutes - not too difficult. You can use trekking pole(s) in lieu of the front shelter pole (and save the ounce or two). Highly recommended.

Nope. No one respoded. I guess a total newbie doesn't rate - or perhaps it was the area. I'm new to it so I'm not sure which.... In the end it didn't matter - I decided to check it out anyways, more for scouting purposes than anything. Got up to the Gritscone about 5:30 or so and there were three other (very nice) folks there. As I brought all my gear (on the off chance that there would be folks there willing to take on another person), it worked out well. Things were mostly dry (a little damp in places)- I suppose two dry days are necessary for Gritscone to toally dry out. I had fun - did my first 5.9 on real rock (well, pumped out, dropped off, took a rest, started again, dropped off at the crux, restarted at the crux and worked through it to the top). The only gym I've climbed at is SG, so I couldn't compare to VW. I like the place - parking is a little tight on Tuesday nights is about the only gripe I can come up with. Every time I've gone, there seems to be a good selection of routes at all difficulty levels (although I admit to focusing on the stuff in the 7 to 8 range). I'm always looking for someone to climb with....the more the merrier. I'll PM you........

Anyone interested in doing some climbing this afternoon at Exit 38? I can be there by 5:00. Weather looks half way decent. I'm a newbie (I can do most 7's and some 8's at Stone Gardens) - I'd like to try the Gritscone in the Farside area. I've only been on real rock a couple of times - I have gear to TR and a 6 pack of draws (I've led a couple easy routes and want to try more). PM if you're interested.......