chrismael

Too bad local hikers 25 years ago didn't eliminate all those grass smokin, lycra wearing, shotgun blastin, rock chippin, bolt placin Hippies. We wouldn't have any of this. For now on,... I'm gonna belittle the parties who turn the pioneer route into a 5 hour epic, chastise all the novice climbers trying to kill themselves in the dihedrals, run off all them pesky tight rope people, plant restorative poison ivy to combat bouldering erosion, fixed ropes and draws???? I know a guy, we call him the Leprechaun, maybe I'll even stop any hikers going over misery ridge without the proper footwear. Excuse the sarcasm, but several things have brought me to the point where I can't waste much more time here and humor carries me along. Plus it comes off better than vulgarity and name-calling which are classic indicators of a weak argument. 1. Many here have little understanding of the logistics of the swing,... actually, a few don't understand the basic physics of dynamic ropes, pendulums, and anchors. 2. There is a merit-less and false belief that most of the swingers are non-climbers or novice climbers. 3. It appears that one person and one only is responsible for this accident. 4. Oddly, most of the anti-swing rhetoric parallels the language we often hear from non-climbers about the risks of climbing, the same rhetoric many climbers use toward free-soloists. “I don’t know how they do it, I’ve never done it (or can’t), but they’re crazy and they’re gonna die.” My admissions… I’ve always been concerned with how the public and managers perceive climbers in the park… I’ve acted upon this through donating time, money, and materials in projects that have no benefit to climbers but hopefully give us a little bit of “moral high ground.” This being said… When swingers, high-liners, fixed rope users leave there stuff up,… I should be more active in encouraging safe, quick use and removal. The swing is best used by those who fully understand it, at times when the park is less populated, I should have expressed this view with those who were cavalier about the swing’s use. Of course people will hoot and holler, but it’s far better than listening to someone have a vulgar meltdown after falling off their project for the 20th time or a hiker yelling “don’t fall.” The issue has been raised elsewhere regarding the presence of these “discussions” on a public forum and subsequent use by land managers as some form of “public comment.” While I detest all forms of “Backroom Democracy” I would at least ask for people’s earnestness and courtesy. But hey, these are the ravings of a adrenalin crazed, semi-suicidal, cliff diver looking for his next fix; right? And I’m doing it all from a café in Nigeria. “Were all in this together, and nobody gets out alive”

Good point. I just began to realize that a lot of folks weighing in still aren't familiar with the logistics of the swing. Perhaps I would say "less likelihood or lower probability" as opposed to "less risk" though. hmmm... As stated here or in ST earlier, the swing is by no means new to the park. It has had a resurgence in popularity the past year, probably getting set up ?4-6 times max? Two of the bolts removed were placed last year, the original bolts were much older and were used kind of as directionals while being backed up by more stuff above. I guess my point is, this isn't new. Someone earlier stated that Joel was the first one to put it up last year. They are very mistaken. It has been up occasionally over the past ?20+? years.

Wrong! Rock climbers not accidentally trying to kill rope swingers Please clarify, I'm struggling with the "accidentally trying" part. Are you claiming that this swinger was up on the springboard just waiting for his turn to take somebody out, then had a change of heart but at the last second fell off.

I think this is definitely a topic worth discussion. Not to dredge up ethics for the sake of spray, but I still don't buy into the logic of the anchor removal.... thus far. Ian, I figure you have a good if not the best idea of what climbers and land managers of the park are thinking. I really wanna get a better idea of what forces may be acting upon this issue. So far, both here and in ST there appears to be a lot of reflex judgement thrown around. Bottom line. This accident appears to be the result of recklessness, carelessness, disregard/disrespect for safety; (by an individual). Whatever... But the swing can be done safely and it is loads of fun. I'll put it up there with my most enjoyable climbs even though it's not climbing. I suppose if Joel and whomever wanted their bolts out of there, then so be it. It just sucks that the point is more swiss cheese than it used to be,... especially in the most ideal spot for anchors. I'm really struggling with the idea that removal was "proactive". The time-frame screams "reactive" to me. I suppose the most legitimate reason I can find for removal is that it arguably closes out six? other routes when people were on the swing. Someday I would love to throw myself at rising expectations and I would be pissed if every time I hiked over, there were people hogging the swing. But, does my ground up go with a rack of nuts give me the high ground? chris

The "latest" emailed to me today... Please read and provide comments as soon as possible. The next 5 years of this site depends on comments TODAY. Issue: Skull Hollow Campground near Smith Rock State Park in Central Oregon will be closing for several months over the winter of 2010-2011. In 2009 the United States Forest Service (USFS) started charging fees and in 2010 turned the site over to a private concessionaire. The USFS only required the concessionaire to keep the site open from April 1 to October 31. Skull Hollow is a popular camping site for climbers because of its remoteness, and access to USFS land, trails, and open space. Also, fires and car camping are permitted at Skull Hollow (unlike other local camping options), and the campground receives little snow fall so it can be used all winter. On October 31 the concessionaire closed Skull Hollow Campground intending to keep it closed for 5 months through April 1. The first weekend November 6-7, 2010 the site was closed, many people just camped outside the campground. Multiple phone calls and emails to the Forest Service promoted them to ask the concessionaire to keep the site open longer. They have agreed to keep it open through November and reopen it March 1. This still leaves 3 months of the site being closed. Although winter is cold, a forecast of a sunny weekend can fill the campground. Additionally, the USFS is getting ready to sign a 5 year agreement which still allows 5 months of closure time. What Can You Do: The USFS staff says that if they hear from enough people they might change the closure period. We need your help. Please email and phone USFS staff and let them know that you want the site left open during the winter. We need people from all over the US, Canada, Europe or anywhere else to write or call in. It can be a simple email saying where you live, you want to camp at Skull Hollow between Nov 1 – April 1. You can expand the scope of your email by adding: • Concern of resource damages from dispersed camping (Skull Hollow was constructed because of past problems from dispersed camping) • how nice of a site it is, • your positive past experiences that you have had at Skull Hollow CG, • that you spend money in Central Oregon, • the importance of camping opportunities near popular climbing areas, • how well climbers take care of climbing areas and campsites • the need for a site where you can have fires and car/van/rv camping, • your vehicle is not capable of traveling further up the un-maintained rutted road to look for a camping spot (there are not many of them), Please email or call: Kent Koller: 541 416-6482. kkoeller@fs.fed.us Cathy Lund 541 416-6650 clund@fs.fed.us PLEASE TAKE TIME TO CONTACT THE USFS. EFFORTS SO FAR HAVE BEEN WORKING BUT THEY NEED TO HEAR FROM MORE PEOPLE. *****************************   More Detailed information: The USFS is allowing a private concessionaire to close Skull Hollow Campground near Smith Rock Oregon for 5 months each winter. Skull Hollow is popular with climbers. Over the years they created a gravel loop road, installed 2 vault toilets, picnic tables and fire pits. In 2009 they started charging fees. Many people choose to camp at Skull Hollow because you can sleep in your vehicle (trucks, vans, RVs, etc.) and you can have campfire, both you cannot do at Smith Rock due to small area and many neighbors. Smith Rock is a year round climbing area. Last year they started charging fees. Now the USFS has a private concessionaire, who had a one year agreement to take care of the site. The USFS wrote in the contract that the concessionaire only had to keep the site open from April 1 to October 31, but can keep it open longer if they desire. The concessionaire is a large company in Utah who has many campgrounds throughout the Northwest, they pay a camp host a small amount of money to take care of the site. Additionally, the USFS holds the concessionaire responsible for damages to the site, even during the off season so it creates a financial risk to keep the site open without a host. The USFS is in the process of reassigning the agreement to the same company for a 5 year period of time under the same conditions. There was ZERO public input or consultation about the 5 month closure with local climbers or the Smith Rock Group (who have historically help fund the pumping of the toilets and cleanup of the site) History of the site: I started camping here in 1991. At that time it was a wide spot along a gravel road. Over the years more people learned about the site and it became the place to camp. I remember one year when a horse event was held in the middle of the summer. There were hundreds of horse trailers and campers out there, which really impacted the site. Much of the vegetation was knocked down and after that the campsites just spread all over the area. During the 1990’s the owner of Redpoint Climbers Supply was paying to keep portable toilets at the site. I believe around 1996 the USFS installed 2 vault toilets, laid down a gravel loop road, and fenced the area to keep cattle out. But at the same time they also banned all camping along the road, from the paved road for about one mile. From that point on, there are very few campsites, unless you drive several more miles up the road. The Smith Rock Group, who hold annual volunteer work days at Smith Rock started to pay one half of the cost of pumping the toilets and would send volunteers out each year to clean up the area and help to install fire grates. Over the years the USFS continued to add fire grates and picnic tables. Around 2007 or 2008 the economy really started to crash in Central Oregon. Skull Hollow was getting overrun with homeless. There were reports of domestic disputes, heavy drug use and late night fights. It was common to drive out there as see multiple homeless camps with ratty old trailers and garbage and junk all around the campsite. The USFS already had a 14 day stay limit at the site but it was rarely enforced. In 2009 the USFS passed a fee to help maintain the site and to help prevent the homeless from living there. Many people were opposed to the fee, citing that the people would be dispersed to other areas and that the USFS already had a mechanism to deal with the homeless, the 14 day stay limit. The USFS tried to run the campground for a year without a host. Someone stole the fee station. The USFS decided they “needed more help” with the site and decided to turn the site over to a private concessionaire. Now the site is slated to be closed for 5 months of the year. This site truly sees year round use. USFS staff would typically patrol during the day and would not see campers. Especially in the winter months people would spend the day recreating, go eat dinner in town and head out the Skull Hollow later in the evening. November and February are fairly busy. March is one of the busiest months of the year with good weather and 3 weeks of Spring Break with the Oregon, Washington and California school systems. Some people think there is no use in December and January, but we often get warm sunny days in the middle of the winter and the park and camping are very popular. There is camping at Smith Rock State Park, which provides walk in tent sites and showers. But the grasslands provide a different experience for people. I think it is important to have multiple camping options around Smith Rock. This was the first weekend that the site was closed of November 6 and 7 there were 26 tents outside of the campground, since the USFS failed to post no camping sites and failed to provide any public notice of the closure of the site. As of November 10th the USFS own website still states the site is open year round. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/centraloregon/recreation/campgrounds/skullhollow.shtml

----------Hope to see there! Hopefully I won't be flashing dirty looks at you on your way to climb. ha ha----------- ----Oh, projects usually only go till noonish or twoish. ----Watts will be doing a slide show! Maybe you can get him to write something witty in your new guidebook too! 18th Annual "Spring Thing" Saturday, May 8th Be a part of the 18th Annual Smith Rock “Spring Thing” volunteer day. This one-day event focuses on restoration projects to protect and enhance public lands in and around Smith Rock State Park. Projects include: erosion control, trail improvement, grass and tree planting, trash cleanup, climbing route cleaning, & chalk removal. The “Spring Thing” will end with a appreciation dinner starting at 6 p.m. The evening celebration will include a slide presentation, prize raffle and fund-raising auction of outdoor gear with proceeds earmarked for future events and projects at Smith Rock State Park. The non-profit Smith Rock Group organizes and coordinates the event in partnership with the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department (OPRD) and other corporate and private sponsors. SPRING THING INFO: * Saturday, May 8, 2010. * Registration is from 8-10 AM by the main fee station at Smith Rock State Park. * Parking passes, breakfast snack, water, sunscreen, work gloves, direction, tools and supplies are included for all registered volunteers. * Free dinner for volunteers starts at 6:00 PM followed by the ever popular auction and raffle.

Ok, looks like the oddball forrest chocks and the metolius sling are gonna be out the door. Hopefully the XGK will follow suit If your interested, please hit me up through the cl ad if you want to email. Goes straight to my phone. Navigating CC has always frusterated me.

Hey, I've a bunch of stuff on Bend's Craigslist. Its all in Sporting Goods if you keyword climb and chris you should get it all with pics and brief descriptions. I'll try to check back here too. I'll happily ship to fellow CC'rs if you have a history on the site. Shipping price not included. Please hit me up with any questions, please be complete and specific so I don't think your a bot. I'll be fast to update sales on CL, but the following list may take a little while. Thanks -Full set of Forrest Tetons, anodized and steel -Full set of Chouinard Tube Chocks -Garmont Super G's 26 -set of Rockcentrics on spectra -set of mismatched hexes and curves -XGK -big wall sling -BD and Charlet leashes -a set of Astro nuts, and other nuts.

Were you on an existing route? Second that. ??

BRAVO! Picked up my copy early last week and am thus far impressed! I think the new book will be very easy for new folks to use. I really enjoyed the new material in terms of history and section introductions. I was a little disappointed to see a few of my fav descriptions changed or gone, most notably "Only blockheads with enough experience to know better should try." But, there are many new descriptions as well. The new material can add to some of our shorthand lexicons of "grovelling up chimneys" and "being careful to not tear your lycra."

Paulina, last 12/10. The south flow was as fun as I have ever seen it. who knows now? I always have hopes that it will persist given it doesn't see any sun, but there is a lot of volume still. There was a bit of ice on the North too. Looked like it collapsed recently. The south flow had a passable cave behind it, well passable after knocking out a couple of chunks and squeezing. Tumalo is a ways out if ever, Seems the only luck I've ever had there was in early march. Nothing but golden sun on Cougar. I have some approach beta on Squaw (Wychus) for anyone who is interested enough to put forth the effort. I assume the thing has been climbed at some point in time, can anyone confirm or deny this?

Yeah, thats right, I'm screaming. Seems I've wasted a least a half a dozen days each december in the past decade tromping around for handful of mediocre climbing days. Where are you young whipper snappers who are supposed to be out there doing it for us old guys? Huh? Too busy with your X-boxes??? Don't know how to post on with your Ipod touch??? Afraid to get your little fingies cold??? Think your gonna impress that girl at the gym? Bah! Go thrash around in 3 feet of snow through dead lodgepole for a day and become a man! Post it up. See, there's even hope for Tumalo! (pic was in march) A couple more days of this cold, and we might have something???

Oh sorry, Anyway, I sold the Prophet. Still have a Grigri for $30 plus ship pics on the bend CL http://bend.craigslist.org/spo/ search grigri and I have the metolius wall sling reduced to $20 Both are on CL. I also have a set of WC hexes slung on Dynamee (non anodized) in excellent shape. Havent set a price yet??? maybe $20-$30, haven't posted them yet either. chris 541.977.7494

There all right here: http://bend.craigslist.org/spo/ I'll be in Seattle this weekend. I will bring the stuff with me. I'll try to update this post as I sell, but It might be monday before I get to it... Check the CL link as it will be updated. Thanks for lookin. chris.

the z21 version, gotta love the use of 17 and 18 year olds with "years" of experience. http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=10727905

My vote depends on whether you want to camp and forecast. If your alpining it, I would go FTD in and out. Lots of water available on FTD. Overnight with good forecast (tboomers) is very unlikely and untrustworthy but I would still FTD it, Some bivy style rock shelters exist on shoulder of Tempest. For and enjoyable and less common Aero Lakes would be cool, especially if you have a little time. Altough, I don't know if I would describe Aero as sheltered. Memory seems to scream "wide open". Beautiful hike in though, and an excuse to drive through Lamar Valley (YNP) and burgers/beers in Cooke City. Enjoy. Oh, if your a sucker for loops, I would heavily research descent through Huckleberry, I was forced to descend it without prior knowledge and it was a bit of an ordeal, did see some massive rocks go during an afternoon descent.

well, the title is probably sufficient for this one. chrismael@yahoo.com cv

Hey Jeff, I read the other thread a couple weeks ago. I was lazy or tired though and never posted anything in your defense. Today, I was out "exploring" a little bit and I remembered the issue. I swore to log on and chime in regarding many items now resolved. Sorry to be a day late. Your interest and work at TC has consistently been thoughtful, responsible, and open to others' opinions. That being said, I hope you enjoy jet-setting from Chamonix to Patagonia with all the other independently wealthy climbing guide authors! cv

More times than not, I have driven into the Pamelia TH every month of the year. Of course I probably just jinxed your trip. Sorry. I believe your correct in understanding that the road is not plowed. I am suprised how little snow I find there most times. cv

Climbed and skied the south summit several years ago in Jan or Feb. Didn't even need helmets. Maybe this is relevant for your descent? Maybe irrelevant?

Threw down three TR's on sunday. Good times. Had one cord on each side of the south flow. More ice than I've had there before. Hopefully the cold will settle in, but you've usually gotta go if you wanna know. But hey!... if its good,... let me know!