hemp22

Article in Columbian sounds like the two were building a TR anchor and had put in 1 piece of anchor pro & were both connected to it, and a slip or something occurred before getting the 2nd & 3rd pieces in & attached.

So now, apparently Nadia Waggoner, CCH's Office/Production manager, is allegedly posting on the RC.com thread (and also on summitpost, and probably other sites) under an anonymous username, and accusing Mr. Datesman of being paid by a startup company or competitor rig his tests to look bad for CCH. This is kind of like a fatal car accident on the side of the road - I know it's wrong, and that I should just move along and go about my business, but it's so hard not to stop and gawk. I hope they unban her so she can post more. I need some popcorn.

looks like that picture was taken on the same route as the infamous "mirco cam" video. Another fine example of quality control

No worries - I was just going by what I saw on your website. Never been to the store. But, my real view on this is that it's not meant to be a statistical test to prove whether aliens are good or bad. My take-away from this and other RC.com threads is just that alien brazing defect issues existed prior to the recall date period, and still exist after the recall date period (and that the company hasn't addressed this doesn't inspire confidence). Most of them are still perfectly fine, but the probability that you might end up with a "bad" one when buying an alien seems higher than with other manufacturers. I know plenty of people who still swear by them, and I still occasionally climb on them - but, like AlpinFox, it was surprising to see someone posting under a name that represents a gear shop show a strong bias towards one brand of product (especially when the gear shop's website doesn't list that brand) Oh, and Alpinfox - Once upon a time, Joseph stuck his neck out for CCH too. He put a lot of solid effort in, but still ended up changing his tune - and he doesn't seem like the type of guy that changes his mind on a whim...

Interesting testimonial from the gear shop that doesn't appear to carry aliens. you're over-reaching a little when saying the results of that test are null. someone could just as easily say that the results of the test of your climbing partners is too small a sample size, and also null.

awesome. filthy awesome. who would've guessed that you'd actually for for it? good on ya for heading out there. probably takes a serious devotion & love of dirt to commit to a line like that. so, did you end up with any poison oak? if it's possible to get out there without experiencing that pestilence, I might head out that direction soon.

i don't think it's really an ethics question - more of a morals / personality question. So, my answer would be "do unto others...." The one time a partner got a piece of my gear stuck (he was leading on my rack), he replaced it for me the same day. The one time I was following & couldn't get out a piece put in by the leader, I offered to replace it & he declined. If you're overly concerned about it, then yeah, discussing ahead of time is probably a good idea. And agreeing to split the cost is maybe a good compromise - since it can be as much the leader's fault as the follower's fault. (but I'd lean towards itusually being the leader's fault) but it's not really ethics, unless you're losing so much gear that you're altering the climb for other people who come later...in which case, all you need to do it tell me where you climb...

REI does occasionally have good deals during their sales - like the $60 60M rope a few of us picked up last year. For current best prices, try checking out www.spadout.com - to see which sites have the best deals - pretty easy if if you know what diameter you're looking for. (Cheapest 60M I see right now is a Beal 10.2 for $119 at alpenglowgear)

Nice effort Ivan - and thanks for replacing that Pin (assuming it doesn't look like that one in Joseph's picture on the previous page). I'd meant to go take a look this weekend, but ended up climbing elsewhere. I agree w/ Ivan that there are relatively few fixed pins at broughton - bolts are just more prevalent there. But there are certainly a few rarely-travelled pitches that have pins on them that could stand to be checked out or replaced by someone with the know-how. There are really only a few routes that I can think of w/ fixed pins. There are also a few home-made bolt hangers that are equally sketchy. ...Still waiting for that Jungle Cliff TR Ivan - you might find some interesting mank out there.

I think a lot of people look up the route, or look at the topo of the route in the guidebook, and see a lot of bolts - including an "x" for that fixed pin...so they figure that nothing but QDs is necessary. Most people I know (myself included) got on it without gear their first time. But, I caught a friend taking that fall from the mantle last year (without gear) - and yes, it's a painful, penduluming, slab-smacking fall. He didn't break anything, but since then, I always take a small cam for the finger crack. But even if you do have a piece in the litte crack there, and were to fall from the ledge after the mantel (without the fixed pin would protect you), it'd still be a nasty fall.

I wanted to add: nice work on Hanging Tree - it looks like a nice line that could use some more love (too bad about the tree being gone). After your various poison-oak-bushwacking adventures at Beacon, and nettle-wrestling below hanging tree, you should be properly prepared to go for some of the stuff down at Jungle Cliff. Definitely look through the Olson book at the stuff past Bat Wall. I can almost guarantee that you won't be disturbed by the sport monkeys that far out... Oh, and yes, thanks in advance for replacing the pin. P1 of superstition is climbed frequently, and I'm sure someone could have an unpleasant surprise when they find it missing.

Thanks for the heads up on the pin from superstition being gone. What size of small cam are we talking about here? I guess I'll take a look next time out @ Bat Wall to see how it looks. Any of you aid monkeys have a pin you'd be willing to donate if enough folks think the fixed pin should be replaced? you know, for us sport monkeys that can't be bothered with the extra weight of taking a TCU/alien up there...

Thanks Kellie - after the wildflower tour, what's the assessment of the local poison oak? just wondering if I'll need a hazmat suit for the cleanup on the 16th.

I can't picture the pocket you're talking about right now, but I'm guessing it won't up the grade, since I think the crux is later. but will confirm later, next time i'm out there w/ someone strong enough to tell the difference.

damn. so is there gonna be a weight limit to climb there? bat wall is falling apart... But, it was a gorgeous day to be out there, for sure.

long-haired freaky people need not apply. Also, bump to say that anyone who wants to see if there's something they can do to help curb cabbage tossing, dwarf tossing, or other generally unwanted tossings at broughton should come to the access fund's adopt-a-crag event on Saturday, May 2nd (10:00-3:00) & talk to the State Park folks there. (Oh, and there'll be a BBQ by climb max and free schwag)

How many pitches total did you do on Triassic, and where'd you get the walkoff directions? Just curious because we rapped from the 4th set of anchors - didn't know how much further it'd be to top out. Edit to add: nice work on Levitation 29, by the way - that one's on my list too for sure. But I'd also agree that Cloud Tower looks like a more appealing climb to me - but definitely more intimidating.

So, the OP wants a zero-bolt crag so that a person can stumble upon the crag and have no trace that others have been their previously...but there are 2 trees with webbing around them on top as rap stations? If people are leaving webbing/rope around trees in between visits, that trash should be cleaned up. I said earlier that zero bolts is do-able if the topography supports it....but damaging a bunch of trees or plant life shouldn't automatically be an accepted way of achieving that. Topography that supports it may more realistically be where climbs top out to gradually lower angles with opportunities to build gear anchors and then walk off. Personally, I still think zero bolts is a good ideal to work towards, and this crag sounds remote enough it shouldn't be a problem to maintain that. But be realistic about why you're doing it, and don't make it an excuse to make other shoddy practices the norm out of laziness. Don't put yourself in position of adhering so adamantly to one ethical ideal that you end up making compromises to other ethics. And if you're going for the "untrammeled by humans" effect, then why stop at no bolts? why not no chalk, no scrubbing, no cleaning, etc? And Kevbone - just because a face climb isn't bolted doesn't mean it's a waste of rock. There were comments earlier about intentionally making some climbs top-rope only, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are some local climbs just like that, even at Ozone. In fact, I'd say the OP and other people who climb at this crag ought to hurry up and top-rope every face climb out there, and document it...so that you don't have climbers coming out there years in the future and think they're climbing a new line and therefore have the prerogative to bolt it. oh, and Bill/Joe - don't worry about the trad revival comments - he's just saying that you guys are so old that you're "Retro" now, which makes you cool again

while a bolt-free crag may not be common in OR, they exist lots of other places, and are successful & popular. If the topography is favorable for having top-access to the cliff for walking off, and the cliff is shorter than a rope length, then it's certainly sustainable. Even Horsethief Butte is essentially a bolt-free crag.

I'm sure a few folks here are familiar with this popular climb on bat wall. There used to be a small dinner-plate-sized undercling flake at the last bolt of Lost Boys. It was slightly loose & moved a bit when pulling on it to get past that last bolt (kind of the "2nd crux" of the route). It's gone now - either fallen off over the winter, or broken off. This may be old news, but it had been about a year since I've been on lost boys, so I'm not sure exactly when it happened.

i've had the same thing happen before - with cabbage a few weeks ago, or with general trash other times. irate yelling seemed to stop the deluge each time. a sign's not a bad idea, i guess, but i'm not sure if it would really be a deterrent to the type of folks who want to throw stuff off. it's probably worth bringing up w/ the park service at the access fund's adopt-a-crag event that usually happens early each summer. the north face & hanging gardens wall seems to be most susceptible. i've never noticed anything when further down the trail.

kgw.com is reporting that 1 died & the other was life-flighted out in serious condition. http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_040509_news_rock_climbing_death.a7601d67.html Edit: although other sources are saying the woman died too - after the life flight. Either way, best wishes to their family & friends.

news is reporting an avy in white river canyon. S&R got called out because some observers saw skiers digging for their buried gear...but no skiers caught.

yeah, i think your belayer had his panties in a bunch. It's certainly not ideal due to the rope drag, etc - but it's safe enough. I've done the single locking-biner on the first bolt on climbs w/ low cruxes.

Nice, I'm glad to hear that. I haven't been getting on the snow this season due to various reasons, but it's good to hear that the B/C conditions have been better recently. It helps one to live vicariously...