AFIVE

Anyone who enjoys Indian Creek just the way it is should read this. You can go to www.moabdesertadventures.com/foic.htm This is the Environmental Assesment. They are giving climbers two years to police themselves. After the two years if there is still toilet paper and cat holes rather than folks using wag bags, they want to build some restrooms and established campgrounds which will all cost money. If you like the free disperssed camping have a read and sign up for the free membership for friends of Indian Creek.

Petzl USA says it's available November 20th.

It appears that anyone with "real" experience all agree that hammoks suck! Get a ledge, or do routes that don't require them, until you save enough dough to buy one.

The first availablity of them is November 1st! Shops that wrote orders for them at the Summer Outdoor Retailer show last August will get them in November. Shops that didn't write orders at the show have to wait until 2006 to get them. U.S. Outdoor has one pair comming in in November.

Sorry for being one of the few serious folks on this site. Enjoy bagging on me!! You seem to be more interested in talking shit rather than giving helpful info.

I was just helping homeboy from spending and uncomfortable night with little to no sleep in a hammock. I did mention nice attributes of the Metolius which I like from a personal experience not just spew. I did forget to mention that I sell them, thanks for reminding me. It appears that someone else agrees, as usual, with my responses.

Save your cash until you can buy a double!! You will be much more stoked. If you have a double....all you have to do is find a willing sucker to go suffer with you. They won't have the excuse of "I don't have a ledge". When you are really long walls or you just go really slow like me......You and your partner can each have a double to spread out on and be super comfy!! It's not like weight is an issue. Comfort is what you should be shopping for! Get a ledge with tension staps on the bed like the A5 ledges now ACE ledges and the Metolius Bombshelter is a nice rig. My partner has the Metolius ledge and the spreader bar feature under the bed is awesome for keeping the long side tubes from pinching in and robbing you of your shoulder space. My A5 Double does pinch in a bit. They are both really good ledges. I didn't like my first ledge which I used for 6 years which was a Fish "Double Whammy"......Sorry Russ! I cant wait for Dru to complain about this sounding like a gear review!! Just answering questions Dru.

Back Country Access!

how come you are such a smart ass? I am a buyer for a gear shop and I am a prototype tester for a lot of companies because I climb every week! I am just sharing my experiences with new gear comming out so that folks can get an early opinion on the stuff before it hits the stores. I try to use this site as a tool, rather than being a tool on this site!!!!

Wren Silent partner, Yates Rocker, Wren Soloist, Petzl Mini Traxion, Petzl Pro Traxion, Petzl Basic, Petzl Shunt, Petzl GriGri, Wild Country Ropeman are all devices that would work fine for that purpose. Some are going to be safer than others, while some will be way easier to free climb with than others. You can always use a locking biner on your belay loop and clip a clove hitch to it for your belay. This works better for leading while aid cllimbing, but will work for TR'ing as well. Make sure you back up the clove hitch if you go the low budget direction!

Mike- It's been a while since I was that far back into the crags. If I am not mistaking the picture of your descent route....I think the little dome in the far distance is hit or miss rock which has the most established routes on it. Hard to believe due to it being the farthest away. There are several unfinished aid lines on Battle Mtn. The top gives way to a little less optimal rock quality. I also have some notes and topos from when we visited regularly from Ashland college days. I'd be more than happy to share my unpublished info with you. Let me know if you are going to make one more fall trip before the snows hit. I also know of a smooth approach for Root Creek and The Great Book.

Most excelent Bill! I bet you are one hell of a guy to have around the campfire at night. - G

Lot's of new bolts!! A Vancouver resident has been putting up new routes out there for about a year now. I see him buying bolts for his new projects at least every two weeks. Haven't been out to check it out yet. I have heard mixed reviews. Great climbing to choss!

That's the same pack I am using (Khamsin 38) for that purpose. It is a great ice pack. There are some really cool Arcteryx packs comming out for 2006. The Naos 45, 55, 70 and the Acrux 40, 50, 65. The Acrux is a barebones alpine pack with no foam on the back to gather snow. It has fixed harnessing and a minimal hipbelt. The Naos has a foam pannel for your back as well as a sized hipbelt. The coolest things with these packs is that they are totally waterproof. They are essentially drybags that carry great. I got to use the Naos 45 for two weeks in Indian Creek. I was loading the thing up with a monster rack that was a good 20 pounds heavier than what it was designed to carry. The pack is totally welded with no stitching!! They weld on a disk in the lower part of the bag for the hipbelt to twist onto. This connection makes for an awesome carry. The hipbelt allows your hips to move up and down in their natural motion without tossing the pack from side to side on you. This all translates into a pack that gives you very good balance and doesn't seem top heavy when you slip or step over something tall. These bad rides won't be cheap. The smallest Acrux 40 is 329.00 and the largest Naos 70 will be going for 475.00!!!!! Super comfortable, totally waterproof, great performance. These packs should be available in shops in April. Expensive, but I was really impressed with the performance. If you used the thing for what it was designed for I'm sure it's even better! If you have time and don't need it this winter...I would wait and at least check these rigs out.

Go to a gear shop and ask them if they have any old footprints for tents that have been discontinued. They will get rid of it for cheap since no one is going to buy it for it's intended use now that the tent has been discontinued. The urathane coating on the high quality nylon won't let water through if the ground is wet, just like the material on rope bags with tarps. If you get a foot print for a three or four person tent you will have a huge tarp which you can lay out gear on (keeping cams out of the dirt too) as well as flaking out your rope. When you pull your rope from the anchors most of it or all of it (if your lucky) will land on the tarp rather than the dirt. In a pinch you can use it for a shelter to get under if the sky unleashes pacific northwest liquid sunshine. I have been using one of these rigs for five years now and it works great.

Just spent two weeks in the creek. Didn't tape once! Only got two gobis (one on the right middle finger from Johnny cat) and (one on the center of the back of the right hand from incredible hand crack). Crack climbed in Oregon the last two weekends with no tape and the scabs are gone.

Not the new ultralight TCU's and ultralight powercams which should be available to some shops prior to 2006. The new Metolius cams have gotten rid of the little blob that soulders the cable to the axle. The U cable is now soldered into the axle directly. The new design is about the same width as Aliens. A set of #00 to #8 have lost more than 3/4 of a pound over the current design for the same sizes. The new C3's are rediculously light!! The total width of the head is one inch! That is narrower than anything out there. The C3's have a soft flex over a horizontal edge but are nice and stiff for pushing into a crack. You can get them into cracks quite easily with out pulling on the trigger. I found this quite helpful in placing gear while doing a layback. I have only been using them for a few months now. They deffinately have their little niche over Alien's, Zero's and TCU's. Like any aid climbers rack......it's nice to have variety. For free climbing, it sort of depends on your location as to what you would want. Indian Creek cracks that don't bottom out you would want as much head width as you can get (FAT CAMS), in a place like Paradise Forks or Oregon Basalt you might not get something that wide in due to the irregularities. The narrower head profiles will excel in those tight spots. Everyone will have their own preference in pro. They should....they are the ones who will be lobbing off onto the thing when they get spit! I am liking them so far and I do own TCU's, Alien's, and Zero cams. I will most likely add at least one set to my rack when they come out in 2006. Different variations of the prototypes in use can be seen at the U.S. Outdoor Store if anyone is curious in checking them out and their wear.

Tape is cheating!! You miss out on the pain, which is exchanged for power. If you climb with out tape for a few years you get leather on backs of your hands and you don't get many gobis, unless it is a super hard sick splitter. Your gobis tell the story of what size you have been on, thus telling how hard your crack was!

Did you like Plumbline or the dike route better?

Funny you want a metal detector.....The first time I did the Cosmic Wall in 1989 it had only one bolt on the entire route and it wasn't even nessasary as you can get three or four pieces of gear in at the top of the original third pitch (the only belay not on a huge ledge) With a 60M or 70M rope you can do the thing in three to four pitches instead of the original 6 pitches. Mike, Plumbline is one of my favorite routes in the park. I have the old John Bald guide that has all the info east of Mt. Hubris. The rock gets a little less sound farther east in the crags, but is way more adventuous. Get in touch with me and I'll get you the beta from the old guide. You are the only other person that I know of that has explored Root Creek. Sick potential down there huh?

Yes the dike route on the east face is superb!! There is another route "Castle blaster" 5.9 just to it's left which is also good. The first bit of the dike route is a bit run, but gets a bit less heady the higher you get.

Fred Knapp at Sharpend puplishing has a book Rock climbs of Southwest Utah and the Arizona strip written by Todd Goss. Not sure if that is the book you already have or not. And like Dr. F said the Falcon book. James Garrett also wrote a guide to Ibex which isn't too far from there.

What did you get on out there? I just onsited a new route out there last Saturday. I got some eye opening adventure above the roof when I was greeted by a stack of loose blocks at the top of the roof column! I put the anchors on the left side away from the big loose stuff. future ascents should be way clear of the dangers. Yet another killer ground up 5.10 at the crag.

Sorry I don't remember sending you info on this site. And yes I mentioned that I got the name wrong in my earlier entry. Is it possible that we spoke in person about the pillar? I'm glad you put the info to use. I hope you liked the routes we put up. Have you added any routes to the area? Don't you agree that the time to get out there, and do the hike, is much more worth it now that there are several things you can climb in a days visit to the crag?

I already mentioned these routes above in this thread. It is called Heat Stroke not Heat Wave, sorry for misnaming it above. I believe you have quoted me from another site that asked about Steins.