Thrill

Camilo when you say it is rarely crowded makes me think you have never been to PRG have you? PRG prices are no where near market.. that is the very reason people are dropping as fast as the noobs are signing up

Can't speak to the rest of your post Thrill - but Gary is a great guy. He brought the 2nd rock gym ever done in the country to Portland Oregon, with risk to himself both financially and professionally. Gary Rall is an AWESOME person. END OF F*EN STORY -PERIOD . if you know him on a personal level that is fine and you may be freinds with him for all I know. no disrepect to you, butGary is not a swell guy when it comes to PRG and business in general. For example. He did build this gym and it wasn’t a risk to him.. I’ve been there a while and can remember when he told everyone he was raising prices at the old gym so he wouldn’t have to risk anything and so he wouldn’t have to raise prices at the new gym.. so the new gym opens at $68 a month. Ridiculous! And it’s just and oversized woody! But I had my group of friends and a yearly contract so I stayed. Then he does nothing for the people that have been there all along no promotions, nothing.. just rape and pillage. The is absolutely no way to justify the prices he charges. Bally’s has overhead. They have hot tubs and swimming pools and don’t even cost that much! And on a personal note. A friend of mine used to climb.. he wanted to get a membership for a year to make it more economical but since he was in the Marines he knew he would be sent to war at any moment. He personally asked Gary if he would give him a break and let him break the yearly if that happened.. Gary told him since he wasn’t moving away and that he would be back.. he couldn’t break it. this guy was going to fawking WAR hello! So it is my own opinion ( a few share it) that Gary is an ass. Period sorry I dont agree with ya Bill

sorry dude, Gary ( the owner) is lame.. most people really dislike him and how he runs things. so, people have been dropping out like flies.. and thus leaving you with the gumbies. even the good employees have left.. so the quality of that gym is shot to hell really. winter is coming so soon better route setters and over all climbers might be back in.

pendleton wool for that matter

Anyone got any cool pics of the St Helens glow?

Arc'teryx are really expensive.. find something on sale..

ok I got a working VCR and working 6 disk CD changer for a home stereo?? trade?

not washington but Oregon Mountain community has them for $199. go to e-omc.com and check em out

Prana tops are so poorly made, just pull on em and they'll rip right off

check out The Green Room in NW portland or The GoodFoot in SE or the Bitter End on Burnside

thanks Bob.. that is interesting and funny too.

LOL ... you guys are great. keep it up. (come on.. you have at least wanted to bonk someone with your #11 hex, right?)

I think they did but since it’s hypothetical it’s really hard to know.

DKemp.. you got me there. Sky.. LOL that was good.

John, don’t assume you know my pace. out of the 7 parties passed on the nose there just might have been another party that was trying to beat their best time. since Hans is better they let him pass.. but because of that decision he fawked up their chances at making good time. there comes a point when EVEYONE is training. If it is a noobe training to not be a noobe anymore, or Bob training for the Alps, EVERYONE is training.. and EVERYONE has a right. You may believe you have the right to pass.. but you may also come up on someone that doesn’t believe you have the right. You’ll have to make a decision then. just like Grandpa on HWY 101 as long as he has a license and insurance he has the right to be there and if that yellow line is solid I have to follow at his pace.. period. If I break the law and get into road rage.. then that is my own fault. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you make a decision to pass me without asking or ignore if I said no, then you must live with my reaction. Regardless if you have alpine experience, have climbed the nose 5 times in a day, or wiped your ass on the Alps.

This is where it is ok to disagree. There are too many things to take into consideration… Who is climbing, what they want out of this climb, etc. are they having a good day or a bad day, is it Bob up there? All sorts of things to consider. .. My point is when coming up on someone if you use the better then thou attitude and think you are just going to pass…. I have my heavy #11 on a sling… but if you are nice like the guy that made the first post and I still get pissed at you.. then you have a right to apologize and make me feel like crap. For me nothing is worse then when I act like an asshole and the other party makes me look in the mirror.. We can go on all day about what people SHOULD do, yet people are very different… so I believe the only thing you should ever expect is to be courteous and hope you are treated the same way.

Glass, I do agree with you. .. sometimes.

as in Golf.. it is up to the lead party to let you go by or not.. you'll only catch up with another party.. should EVERYONE move over and bow to you? Here we go with the “I’m better then thou.” Attitude. You will always find someone faster and better then you.. (even you Glass) you will always find someone that thinks you DON’T belong on the route, but it isn’t true. If you are climbing safely and doing your thing then you belong.. the elitist can deal with the wrath they create. We have a difference in opinion and that’s how it’s gonna be.

there are more trad climbers that NEVER climb alipine.. your argument is invalid. but i do agree that in ALPINE yes speed is good. dont generalize how people should react..

Glass, I'm in no way close to an outstanding climber as yourself.

p.s. Glass Nothing personal dude, it’s all a fun debate ok?

Glass, Your generalization of “Americans” is classic. Should I think that all Europeans are dicks just because you are? Your ideas are joke. Go ahead and do the nose in day.. you shouldn’t have a problem, not from me or anyone else. You’ll probably get cheered on, by Americans. That is until they meet you and get to know the extent of your intelligence

Hey Glass, Your knowledge is failing you. Your debate of what is “known for sure,” is void. You don’t know anything at all for that matter. You can keep on guessing as long as you wish. You can keep hoping you’ll win some friends or something. Truth be told, is that I do let people pass.. just not people like you. Cheers.

Rumr, maybe it is lame that is your opinion to have. I'll have my own. Smith Rocks and the amount of people that climb there have changed things.. about climbing in general. Because of the production line theory everyone thinks it should be get-on-get-off, as fast as you can thing. Trad climbing is different and most trad climbers would agree.. it’s more mellow, laid back, take your time and make good placements, enjoy the peace. It often involves areas that are not as packed as Smith, yet even at Smith Rocks there are trad areas to hike to, to get away from the crowds… point in the matter is if you begin to have this attitude that “I’m faster then you , so MOVE.” You might come up on someone that doesn’t play that way. As lame as it may seem to you… I have many friends that agree.

Ketch I think you got my point. I let a party pass us at Red Rocks since we had three and they were kicking ass. It's not like it doesnt happen. But I hold true to my policy when deemed necessary. For example. .. Glasslowkiss. Like I said it's just MY policy.. doesnt have to be for everyone.