Blake

The Stehekin Road is also SEVERELY damaged, and will need a lot of work. The plans to pave the first 9 miles might be changed (speculation) and as of now there are numerous spots where even bicycling is impossible.

What's a Tag and Bag peak?

sheesh, you know all my spots! I really like that area, even though it's too dry to have many glaciers and traditional climbing, it just seems very remote and "wild" to me. Anyhow if I understadn you correct in your reference to the "North Summit" (the one directly along the ridge from Fish Cr. Pass) it really isn't far from the actual top, just walk a hundred along a more or less flattish plateau, then its a few minutes of boulder climbing to reach the skinny summit. This was the route mentioned in the summit reg. Thanks for the pics link! Those are really great. I've heard there is actually a "Rock Glacier" on Star Peak, maybe one of the more geologically knowledgeable forum users can shed light on this phenomenon.

When I was up on Star peak this past Summer I noticed that someone had noted they had rock climbed up from Fish creek pass using at least 5 pitches of rope. I was wondering if anyone here had done this peak using the "technical" route as opposed to the traditional off trail rock scramble from Robinson Pass. P.S. If you have no clue what I'm talking about, this is in the Sawtooth area NE of Lake Chelan.

Yes, it's Agnes from McGregor. The tallest "near" peak in the center is the agnes summit correct? then just to the right and behind is gunsight with the two tops... where's elephanthead? Are these IDs right?

Well maybe this one will be a bit harder... not the greatest pic though.

This whole thing was stolen from another board... but it is certainly applicable here. I have emerged from my winter cave with the results of much research, and possibly this site's longest post. For anyone interested... I thought it would be interesting to measure some of my favorite mountains in WA to see which ones were biggest/steepest from top to bottom. Instead of looking at the elevation of a peak, which does not tell you how tall a mountain is, only how high above sea level it is, I measured summit to immediate valley -- vertical relief. A tall mountain may not be impressive if it isn't steep, so I measured steepness, too. I borrowed a formula devised by Edward Earl from the Yahoo Prominence group to come up with values that factor both height and steepness. He calls it "Cliff Measure" or CM = (rise^2)/(rise+run). To make the numbers more intuitive: A 1,000 ft flagpole gets a CM of 1,000. A 1,000 ft hill with a 45-degree slope gets a score of 500. Basically take the vertical relief of the peak and subtract from that number based on the steepness (or lack of steepness) of the slope. It's difficult to figure out the maximum CM for a peak without writing a program to do it, so I made an educated guess. Usually that meant measuring from the summit down the mountain until the terrain starts to flatten out in the valley below. However, David Metzler, a mathematician, mountain afficionado and all-around good guy, did figure out some maximum CMs for comparison to some of the planet's best: Peak Max CM --------------------------------------- Rainier 3320 feet Davis Pk (N Cascades) 2717 Half Dome 2714 El Capitan 2431 Whitney 1936 Logan 6043 Denali 6027 Annapurna Fang 7792 Gurja Himal 7769 -------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some of my calculations, best read with a fixed-width font ---Cascades--- Peak Vertical Relief (ft) Distance (mi) Aspect CM Davis Pk * 5,623 1.19 ne 2655.6 Castle Rock 7,100 2.30 east 2619.5 Rainier ** 11,400 7.50 nw 2548.2 McGregor 6,700 2.10 south 2523.6 Tricouni 6,082 1.64 east 2509.3 Goode 6,000 1.60 ne 2491.7 Despair 5,763 1.47 east 2455.7 Agnes 5,771 1.48 north 2451.5 Elephant Butte 5,220 1.14 north 2424.4 Rainier 12,000 9.00 sw 2419.4 Eldorado 6,386 2.00 west 2406.5 Jack 7,450 3.00 west 2383.1 HiddenLakeLO 5,830 1.60 sw 2380.5 Blum 6,750 2.35 north 2378.2 Hozomeen 5,040 1.09 north 2353.0 Big Devil 6,635 2.30 north 2344.3 Colonial 6,500 2.20 ne 2332.2 Luna 5,100 1.15 north 2328.1 Johannesburg 5,450 1.40 north 2312.9 Flora 7,300 3.00 east 2302.9 Primus 6,500 2.25 north 2298.7 Ruby 6,200 2.00 west 2293.6 Snowking ne ridge 4,514 0.85 ne 2263.5 Snowfield subpk 6,137 2.00 south 2255.7 Davis Pk 6,100 2.00 south 2233.5 Whitehorse 6,100 2.00 north 2233.5 Primus 6,535 2.40 east 2223.5 Pt 6872 (l beaver crk) 4,522 0.89 north 2217.6 Sloan Pk 5,540 1.60 se 2194.1 Forbidden 6,100 2.10 south 2164.9 Big Four 4,200 0.75 north 2161.8 Crater 6,250 2.24 south 2160.9 Triumph 5,000 1.25 north 2155.2 Pugh 6,194 2.20 west 2154.2 Eldorado 7,000 3.00 west 2145.4 Terror 7,000 3.00 south 2145.4 Baring 3,675 0.50 north 2138.7 Pyramid Mtn *** 7,145 3.20 east 2123.5 Booker 5,660 1.80 south 2112.6 White Chuck 5,801 1.92 south 2111.5 Three Fingers 4,000 0.70 east 2079.0 Jack 6,665 2.80 north 2071.1 Luna 5,815 2.00 south 2065.0 Johannesburg 6,800 3.00 west 2042.4 Pioneer RidgeW 4,245 0.88 west 2026.7 Shuksan 4,590 1.10 north 2026.2 1660m 4,350 0.95 south 2020.3 Formidable 5,969 2.29 west 2020.0 Dome 6,000 2.25 south 2013.4 Garfield 4,000 0.75 south 2010.1 Index 3,231 0.38 west 1993.2 Baring 3,138 0.35 north 1974.9 Shuksan 8,260 5.00 se 1968.5 Booker 4,019 0.83 ne 1922.6 Hozomeen 6,450 2.90 west 1911.7 Baring 5,265 1.75 sw 1911.1 Glacier Pk 7,034 3.60 west 1900.0 Church 5,150 1.70 south 1877.6 Baker 10,150 8.50 se 1872.1 Goode 5,300 1.85 sw 1864.2 Snowfield 7,100 3.80 east 1855.8 Blum 7,180 4.00 west 1821.6 Garfield 4,460 1.25 south 1798.5 Logan 7,000 3.85 nw 1793.0 Shuksan 4,770 1.50 ne 1793.0 Triumph 6,300 3.00 east 1792.7 Pioneer Ridge 4,100 1.00 north 1792.1 Challenger 5,000 1.70 east 1788.8 Buckner 6,000 2.70 south 1777.3 Shuksan **** 8,431 6.00 south 1772.1 Index 3,220 0.50 north 1769.4 * Davis Peak near Newhalem, believed to be the only place in the lower 48 that drops over one vertical mile within one horizontal mile. Max CM is 2,717 according to David Metzler. You can see the upper NE face from the Diablo Lake overlook. ** Metzler calculated Rainier's max CM to be 3,320, by far the best in the lower 48 - Point Success to Kautz Creek: 9,022 feet in 2.89 miles. *** This measures to the edge of Lake Chelan. Interestingly, the lake's deepest point is near this peak, which makes 8,631 ft of vertical, the deepest gorge in North America. To the middle of the lake it is 3.75 miles, for a CM roughly of 2620, just guessing. **** Probably the greatest vertical relief for a non-volcanic peak in WA. The CM isn't very high because this measures over the relatively flat and expansive Sulphide Glacier. This measures to the surface of dam-made Baker Lake. Here are a few other major peaks in the lower 48. Again, not necessarily max CM: ---Olympics--- Vertical Distance Aspect CM Constance 6,823 3.04 south 2035.19 Carrie 5,645 2.45 sw 1714.98 Tom 5,624 2.50 sw 1680.78 Anderson 4,315 1.36 east 1619.65 Brothers 3,726 1.00 se 1541.54 Olympus 7,000 5.43 nw 1373.69 Olympus 5,503 3.70 se 1209.43 ---Sierras--- I used the book "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes and Trails" to identify the major peaks in the range. The biggest peaks in the Sierras are the fault block escarpments like San Jacinto and the eastern wall of the high sierra. These peaks get significant extra vertical from abutting large valleys that drop slowly. I measured both to the edge of the valley and to the deepest points in the valleys. The huge steep walls of Yosemite also make high CMs, with Half Dome the highest in CA at CM=2714 according to Metzler. CM Peak Vertical Distance Aspect 2649.9 San Jacinto 8,867 3.94 north 2286.5 El Cap 3,134 0.22 south (the nose) 2246.8 San Jacinto 10,175 6.80 east 2241.3 Lone Pine 6,985 2.80 east (to edge of valley) 2234.0 Williamson 8,383 4.37 east (to edge of valley) 2035.9 El Cap 3,550 0.50 south 2003.5 Telescope 10,024 7.60 west (to edge of valley) 1799.6 Whitney * 7,919 5.10 east (to edge of valley) 1732.0 Telescope 9,049 7.24 east (to edge of valley) 1698.0 Telescope 11,256 12.00 east 1642.1 Morrison 4,635 1.60 north 1491.4 Whitney 10,695 12.50 east 1295.1 Humphreys 7,000 5.84 east 1218.2 Mt Sill 4,585 2.40 east 1204.8 Whitney 2,000 0.25 east face 1150.0 Ritter 3,885 1.75 east 1117.0 Matterhorn Pk 5,200 3.60 north 1102.2 Black Kaweah 4,405 2.50 south 1060.4 N Palisade 4,000 2.10 north 990.6 Winchell 5,056 3.93 west 638.4 Darwin 4,005 4.00 ne 472.2 Darwin 2,981 3.00 west * Whitney Max CM is 1936 ---Rockies--- Obviously not comprehensive, I don't have software for this region, maybe someone with topo software and a lot of time on their hands can fill out this list. Peak Vertical Distance Aspect CM MT Kinnerly* 5,550 1.13 north 2680.8 WY Grand Teton 6,910 3.00 east 2098.8 Squaretop 3,595 0.72 north 1747.2 CO Sopris W 6,307 2.62 west 1975.0 N Maroon 3,814 0.87 east 1730.2 Maroon 3,756 0.89 east 1668.5 Sneffels 4,550 1.43 nw 1710.8 Longs 2,455 0.48 ne 1207.9 to chasm lake Longs 5,950 5.08 east 1080.2 Blanca 5,745 6.84 se 788.4 Blanca 1,945 0.30 north 1071.9 Pikes Pk 3,010 1.21 north 963.9 Pikes Pk ** 5,110 3.83 east 1030.7 to Hell Gate * Glacier NP, one of the top contenders in the lower 48 for big, steep faces. ** I deemed this the maximum vertical for Pikes, though it is subjective.

Pic is Taken from McGregor... the peak in question has been VERY rarely summited and retains it native traditional name.

Dkemp said you'd get it first... Taken from Stiletto. Try this one:

OK, ignore the stupid water bottles... what is the prominent and steep peak in the distance?

Can't tell from that picture, I've never been there myself. The lake is visible on the green trails map for that section (Lucerne I think) and is the headwaters of the S. Fork Bear Creek according to the map.

Cardinal Lake (it has an outlet to bear creek) on Cardinal peak in the Chelan Mountains west of Mt. Maude looks to be between 7,800 and 8,000. That is what I was told is the highest lake.

That crossing on rainbow creek (at bench creek camp) can be somewhat tricky, and has no bridge, but there was a decent log a few years ago. I should think you might have to get wet, but it wouldn't really be dangerous. If you go do this trip, or something out of Stehekin let me know, I'll be up there.

Guess there were more than I knew! I was thinking Dol Amroth, orthanc and Carhadras. Any history on these names? Ok, next question.. what is the highest Lake in washington? (or where is it?) It is named, and somehow it is separate from a tarn. A geologist told me this one, so I'm hoping he was right.

Doing so now...

I've climbed McGregor before, and the top part of the traditional route goes along the upper Sandalee glacier. I have friends who have gone up there and skied before, so it's a fairly "navigable" glacier. The hardest part IMO would be making it up to the base of the glacier, as the bridge creeek fork valley down there is very brushy with no trail. I've got pics on my computer looking right down on that area from above and I can email them if you'd like.

Here is some more NOCA trivia... which mountains in the North Cascades are named for places in the Lord of the Rings books by Tolkien? (There are at least three that are close together geographically that i know of)