KCClimber

KC, I agree with this. And another distinction of a guided party is that in my experience, guided parties are equipped and prepared for self-rescue. So if the guided party chooses to take a calculated risk, they (ideally and hopefully) do so with the understanding that they will rescue themselves if things go wrong, in most situations. This distinction is important because with self rescue, they are (ideally) not endangering the rescue personnel of the local authorities. At least, this was a clearly understood principle when I have been on guided outings with reputable local guide services. In contrast, an ill-equipped and unskilled party traveling in the same terrain, but implicitly assuming that the ski patrol will rescue them should anything go wrong, is (IMO) behaving irresponsibly. I should be clear that I'm not blaming the victims for this tragedy, since I don't know all the facts. In the above, I'm just talking about hypothetical scenarios. I have no issue with folks wanting to take significant calculated risks in the mountains, provided they are equipped and skilled enough to deal with any likely outcome, themselves. [Obviously, there are sometimes unlikely "freak" events that no party can anticipate or be prepared for (e.g., the massive icefall avalanche in 1981 on Mt. Rainier)] Again, just my $0.02. In any event, it was a sad weekend. Cheers, Steve Thanks for better translating some of what I was saying Steve! It was a tragic weekend...

Even then I believe the client has a certain responsibility. Obviously sheer negligence is one thing but the client is signing up for something with inherent risks and has stated that they understand that. If something happens- well then they signed up for something risky and there always a chance of something happening. A guide does not mean you can shut off your brain or not come prepared to learn/use your judgement. They can help bring up your chances for success/teach/manage the risk but cannot 100% guarantee it. Obviously, a beginners course is a little less at risk than an Everest climb due to the desired experience of the clientele.

For clarification: Mtn. Madness & Pro Guiding were teaching/leading a Mounties Ski Leadership group & did not lead the snowshoer into the backcountry. They were leading a group of well equipped skiers and set the track. Just because you see someone do something does not mean you follow. Hikers walk around climbing sites all the time. If they decide to solo something that looks easy and fall and die should the last climber there get sued. Trails are everywhere. COME ON! That is ridiculous! It was horrible what happened but doing things in the outdoors has risks and consequences. There is a certain amount of responsibility on your part if you are going out there. Also...people with formal training and a ton of experience can generally take on bigger objectives and manage the amount of risks a LITTLE better than under-equipped novice's...duh! That's why guiding is a profession... Someone who has taken the time to take that many courses and spend that much time out there has the equivalent training as a doctor or lawyer in their profession. I know I cannot perform heart surgery...

I would hire a guide to learn the stuff you want to learn. I have personally climbed all over and everytime I see a Mountaineers group it amazes me how ridiculous it is- from screaming belay commands sooooo loud you think the mountain is falling apart(amazing how much a name sounds like ROCK when someone screams at the top of their lungs and no one can understand it), fixing pitches on SEWS S. Arete but then scrambling and not spotting on the places where a fall would kill you, tying ropes together for rappelling with so much overkill of knots they get stuck every time while you are waiting for 10 people to rappel, sending rockfall down every time I have seen them on routes I have climbed many times with novices and never sent a thing to running into groups and trip leaders who think they are the shit because they are a mountie! Hire a guide and learn the right info or grab some friends and read a book and try stuff out the old fashioned way. Climb for yourself and not for some graduation or fucking badge(unless of course that is your Profession!).

Was up there early August and we could negotiate the lower glacier just fine. The route was in great shape. Had to traverse hard right before the summit plateau. The variation start(couloir) was the way to go! Good luck

Ever find someone to climb with?

Hi, Sorry it has taken a while to get back to you. I was away working. Still interested? Dome area looks awesome! The pickets works too. Heard the Ptarmigan is starting to get a little out of shape. Will be away Sat./Sun. Cheers, KC.

Anyone up for a route or two or three for those 5 days? I have a fair amount of experience elsewhere (Alaska, Yukon, Europe, S. America, Can. Rockies) and have already done Stuart N. Ridge, Liberty Ridge, Baker N. Ridge, Liberty Crack/Beckey, Index/Town Crier, Adams Glacier, Shuksan, Glacier Peak-FBR, etc. well-travelled classics in N. Cascades. Would love to do Vesper, Goode, Prussik, Forbidden, Dragontail, Olympus etc. although I am up for anything. Uh.....Thanks....

Oh Yeah! The variation start(Couloir that is not the N. Ridge proper) is in great shape too!

Conditions are great. Did it Yesterday. Little route-finding to get to base but then in awesome conditions.

Damn! A hot climber chick, too much beer, two months climbin'. Shit! Sign me up! I'll quit my job right now. Who is this dream woman?

Other real versions of english use "our" at the end of words such as: colour, labour, etc.! Not just 'merican english!

Would like to get out Wed. if you are into it! Cheers