matt_m

Hey... Look - the same post and people and spray as last year and the year before that... Best part of this whole post is - go scrub index if you have energy to do something - IB is only controversial to a few people on this site and 99% of climbers in WA a) don't know about it b) have done it and don't have issues with it c) wonder why this always seems like a HUGE topic when it comes up in cc land. seriously - this is so 2003 it's laughable and people get all foamy at the mouth to this day. WOML still is around... the WCC has the best info on their site. Any post on IB is just going to waste 3 pages (wait - that's what we're here for right?) of posts. WCC Site: " Infinite Bliss (5.10b) drew a lot of attention in 2004 after it was publicized in Rock & Ice magazine. The route is within the Alpine Lakes Wilderness and controversy developed over whether it was established illegally with power drills. Questions regarding the route have been resolved with the Forest Service and the route will remain in place; however, the WCC urges climbers to respect the prohibition on motorized equipment in wilderness areas and to exercise restraint in establishing bolt-dependant routes in wilderness. Although Rock & Ice touted Infinite Bliss as the “longest sport route in America,” not all “adventure” is removed from the route. You should expect a very long day, with some routefinding difficulties, long runouts, and long not completely straight-forward descent (via rappel and some very exposed scrambling). Because of some loose rock on the route (and the fact much of the route follows a rockfall funnel), you should think about avoiding it if more than one or two parties are ahead." Bottom Line: A very small # of people stir up a lot of stuff re: IB that was resolved over 3 years ago. The bulk of the climbers don't know about it or don't take issue with it. Even fewer actually climb it and those that do think it an ok route. Not classic and not horrid. Again - there's a lot of energy to be spent by people in the climbing world. How best to IMPROVE the climbing world with that energy is a decision not to be taken lightly. JH has applied his energy to anchor replacement and stewardship at Beacon. I've done a little scrubbing, trail work and anchor work here and there. I also try and educate the "newbies" of the world to all aspects of climbing - bold trad routes and sport climbs alike.

Done it twice - great day out. 35-45 min approach from the road. The road is VERY potholed right now so allow extra time for the drive in. 10b is right on - probably feels harder due to fatigue. watch yourself on the 3rd class stuff - exciting down climb. I've always wondered if you could fix one or two knifeblades in that section to keep it in line with the rest of the route. Places are bolted well, lightly or runout but the 3rd/4th class is the only you will die if you slip part. Seems silly every time I do it. Honestly, I don't think this route is as popular or as controverisal as is made out to be on CC.com (WE all know JH hates it - others love it) I've only known one other party that's summited and few on here - Everytime I've been on it there were NO OTHER parties - people hike to the base once in a while but Deidre it's not. Heck, it's not OS, or ever Saber...

is that the one that got a cleanup and 3/8in hardware recently? don't mind the runout - just the rust

Thanks - got rained out Sat but will be up there soon!

Anyone been up there yet this year? Thinking this warm spell may get me up there soon.

Just leave it as is - a good route. Save the energy, effort and arguments for something that REALLY matters in an area that has much more clearly defined ethic/style preferences. INDEX is a fantastic place because of it's mixed ethics. Just as the Gunks are for their clear no bolts ethics and a place like Kalymnos, GR is for it's staunch only bolts ethics. Beacon is an area to get in a fuss over for example...

Trip: Icicle Creek - Various Date: 3/31/2007 Trip Report: First day outdoors this season so somehow it seemed like a good idea to start with Carnival Crack. Got it onsight on top-rope then proceeded to pump out with the lead attempt (any tips on keeping the damn rope from messing with your knee lock welcome) Well warmed up we headed over to 4th of July Rock and did Facelift, Beer and Loafing in L'worth and Return of the Bolt Fairy. All good but Beer and Bolt fairy were a bit dirty (early season detritus I suspect). Did my first ever stick clip (found on the ground near by) on Beer not wanting to do something stupid and ruin the early season. Also note the first two bolts are iffy on Bolty fairy (#2 has some noticeable pitting behind it) and there's some SERIOUS TAT on many anchors up there - bring chains or some nice low viz webbing and a knife if you head up there (forgot the knife this time). So we'd done some offwidth, clipped some bolts, all that was left was some gear climbin. Headed down canyon to Alphabet rock and lead Z crack and Meat Grinder. Always good and quick to get to. (Note AGAIN: someones stolen a hanger and chain off Meat Grinder leaving only one on top) Starting to get chilly so we pack up again and look for more sun... Leading to my frustration with L'worth late in the day - you never seem to be able to get a good density of climbs in in one place. We bailed to town seeing warm sunshine calling us. Gear Notes: Carnival Crack: 1 9in, 2 #6 Camalots, 2 #5 Camalots (sews it up) and a few smaller cams for the first 15' or so. Bolts on top but no chains. TICKS ARE OUT IN FORCE TOO: Flicked a bunch off out packs during the day and I picked two more off myself that night. God I HATE those things.... Good to be on dry granite and in the sun again....

Computers break - Both PCs and Macs. They both catch fire, they both blow logic boards etc etc. My track record with Macs is FAR better than PCs. 1999 Power Mac G3 - Still going. 2001 iBook G3 - yep, still going. 1.25 Dual G4 - editing DV50 footage right now. 1.46 Dual G4 - Dead. Died a cold hard death due to some logic/memory issues. Replaced board. Still no worky. 2x Dual 2.5 PowerMac G5s - My office workhorses right now - they're going pretty much every day of the week since 2005. I've had my share of issues with Pcs too. One dell is still going at my moms house (4 years old) What I've found is the PCs seem to just AGE and get slower with all the crap they build up inside... With laptops - a 3 year life cycle is what everyone should plan for. Any more than that and the tech is too old. Towers you can stretch to 4-5 years if you're good. (Though that's changing - now with all the cores, there's an increasingly steep diminishing rate of return on upping the # of cores. I've got quad xeon and going to 8 (possible in the MacPro) would only be needed for high end 3d GFX rendering (Maya etc) Hell, I do High Def stuff no problem right now... Good luck with the iBook but I'd take that $800 and get a quad core 2 MacBook pro this year...

Lots of good stuff on mid east wall and no crowds. Jihad is a personal fav. Steel Pulse, Mr Clean Easy Off,Cold Cut Combo, Desert Dessert all top quality. Blue Autumn good - #6 Camalot for the crux and a #4 Big Bro or Valley cam for the top. No Anchor though which is a mild pain - but worth the trouble. Red M&Ms - just bring lots of small stuff and screamers...

FYI - REI Seattle had a whole bunch of WC Tech Friends in Stock as of 2/13/07 or so - so it looks like they've upped the cam assortment by one. On a side note - I was in the North Vancouver MEC this weekend and the place just KILLS any store here in WA - the climbing gear wall took me at least 5 minutes to scan through - they had EVERYTHING. AND FIXE hangers are $2 CN = that's a LOT less than the @.75 in the US.

It also notes that with being owned (pwned?) by Urban Climber, Climbing might not feel as much pressure to compete for the "youth market" now. Good point I think. They won't want Climbing to compete with UC so they'll probably focus more on longer attention spans, trad, alpine, that kind of thing. I with Drew on this one - Climbing did that AWESOME trad issue a while back - maybe they'll do more like that - and alpinist light for rock would be awesome Most Hated Things in Each Mag: Alpinist : how they seem to always have a subtle superiority complex - yeah they do great rock climbing stuff but somehow they make sure you know they'd respect you more if you were FAing on a snowy peak - bleh R&I - Jason Kehl HEADZ - what the f_ck are those things and what do they have to do with climbing - Hey cool - you took a pics of another young and punkish climber and photoshopped them - way to be artistic Climbing - Letting us know they're a GREEN MAG all the damn time - great: you saved some trees and bongo hitting climbers in MOAB will like it - Now what about the OTHER subscribers who keep your mag and like quality print (since going to high % post consumer whatever the image quality has gone WAY DOWN regardless of what they claim - R&I and Alpinist are coffee table art books in comparison

2nd this one "Ok - so you climb the easy moves straight up then DYNO straight right... Then under-cling the tiny flakes while doing a high-step / mantel move on nothing for feet till you get the good hold and clip the fixed-yet-scary downward facing pin." Yep - easy to on-sight. Sounds more like the moves on Model Worker... crap - you are correct - For some inexplicable reason I seem to switch those two all the time (industry and the worker thing i think) Newest Indusrty - Once standing on the shelf that provided the hard mantel move - go up and down a bunch wonder WHERE THE HELL you're supposed to go - look out right to the faint dike and contemplate for a moment - try it even before you realize it's a dead end then look where you NEED to end up, the blankness in between and laugh when you realize you've been there 15+ minutes with no progress what so ever. FINALLY, remember your sherlock holmes quote "When all other possibilities have been eliminated, the only remaining one, no matter how absurd, it your solution." Look left and start to go up on and left on NOTHING before moving back right. Clip bolt, continue up and left to scary seam before finishing route (How's that? Supertopo would be proud)

2nd this one "Ok - so you climb the easy moves straight up then DYNO straight right... Then under-cling the tiny flakes while doing a high-step / mantel move on nothing for feet till you get the good hold and clip the fixed-yet-scary downward facing pin." Yep - easy to on-sight.

Man - the secrets out - I've been hounding Dave since the spring when the ONYX was gonna be ready. Just got my MIURAS with Onyx. Sweet Sweet setup now. Just in time for... Ski Season!!! doh. Now where are my Atomics.... Seriously - John does the best resoles I've ever seen - Better than when you take them out of the box NEW. My miuras are on resole 5 or 6 and STILL look top notch. Dropped mine off at VW Bremerton and had them back in less than 2 week (not sure of the exact time since I wasn't in there everyday) What ever system they have setup - it works fine and I still get my Ramuta Miuras (katanas etc) I wonder if Ramuta - Miuras will be like Saleen Mustang in enough years?

didn't wolverine JUST publish something? how are they defunct?

Do you really want to get into the the "Is it better to sling and damage a tree, than throw in 2 bolts for an anchor discussion?" I can go there if you'd really like to I'd like to hear the argument. Being from the Gunks where bolts are verboten at the highest order... and yet many anchors and rap stations were installed for the specific reason of PROTECTING the trees. Two small, well camouflaged bolts or a tree with worn-smooth bark and/or grooves/tat? Leme think....

Were you looking at the clearance or the special sale flyer? The special sale one didn't have a minimum that I could tell (I order $50 worth of stuff)

I don't even remember what I googled but I stumbled upon this the other day... This company called US Rigging Supply seems to be having quite the sale on a lot of their stainless "climber" equipment. Mostly KONG brand. I mention this because there are some RIDICULOUS deals on SS carabiners and snap hook things. Perfect if you're looking to build the ultimate set of fixed project draws or EVEN BETTER - replace the fixed gear at your local cliff (WWI cough cough) I'm poor at the moment but ordered a few pieces to help out where i can... goto US Rigging and download the special sales flyer on the right (pdf). You'll have to call to order (gasp!) but they're friendly and prompt. OF NOTE. KONG SS Gym Biner (think SS Spirit) Usually $12.90 - sale $5.18 KONG SS Snap Hook w/eyelet (Perfect for fixed lowering off anchors) Reg $9.31 - Sale $3.77 and Lastly - a plain old SS Wiregate - Reg $7.88 - now $3.08 Detailed specs on the stuff can be found here Kong Product Info Let's keep cliff hardware up to snuff if we can.

I agree that the lowest anchor (before you pull around into the chimney section) is out of place, I don't think the anchor under the roof is "disgusting" at all. (not sure of the 4th you refer to - the anchor near the ringing flake on iron horse that Croft freed?) If you were to pull that anchor under the roof you effectively make that an exclusive climb for the 11+ set (I think it's harder than JG P1) making the lower high quality 80+ feet off limits to those "not worthy". While anchor clutter can be a problem let's not fall for using "esthetics as an excuse for exclusivity". Part of what makes Index so appealing to many is it's amazing mixture of harder gear and bolted climbing within close proximity to one another. Trying to "force" it one way or another is out of character with the less rigid style of development seen at the cliffs. If you're looking for staunch ethics, index much to my relief, is not the place nor does it need to be - I can travel both near and far to enjoy more conservative ethics. I travel to index to climb hard, esthetic lines where the FAists were as much practical as they were prolific. Everyone should just read DC's post. There's history there that's older than any previously mentioned. I too don't support a lot of "Short pitching" but I also don't see it as an out of control problem by any means. DC notes the bolts of Stern Farmer are certainly more out of place... Again, leave it be. Re-authoring routes and history almost ALWAYS leads to more harm than good. I'd rather spend by breath and effort cleaning up forgotten routes and anchors than waste it on an anchor I merely climb by on my way to other things. Like the upper JG pitches!

Don't play that game, for every moderate you name I can name twice or three times as many hard routes. Besides, there are not many more moderates than you listed above. Sure, but for every hard route you can name (and who can't?), you can probably find a point 40 feet up at which, if you built an anchor next to the crack, you'd get a "new" moderate free pitch. Does that make Index a better place to climb? Or does that accelerate the transformation of Index into the Exit 38 of US 2 ? complete bullshit retoric. just pull the anchor, step up and send or go home and eat wheaties. course, who is to say what is a "pitch"... how long of a rope constitutes one rope length up and anchor me here so to speak....natural features or where billyboy and marysue decide to leave permanent anchor???? bolting next to cracks of any size is gay anyways......perhaps lower down anchor needs to be relocated. "Step up and eat you wheaties!" ? Come on - that's just as worthless a comment as above. That would be fine to say to someone who was whining about an old school run-out slab or some beautiful 10a crack that had an 11c start to it - don't mess with what's already established. While this philosophy does not always hold true, for the most part, precedent (in this case a set of mid anchors that's been there for quite some time) is something to be respected, if for nothing else than to maintain some sort of harmony. I've heard people complain about them in the past but NO ONE was that worked up about it (unlike centerfold again). Unless a huge problem for the neighborhood - Climbers need to learn to let sleeping dogs lie. Those mid anchors: 1) Have been established for years. 2) Rarely effect those wanting to do the FULL P1 3) ARE in a natural location 4) Never got many worked up until chain went missing. Once again - CC.com proves not to be a compass of the climbing community but a bar table...

Can we ask them to clear out more foliage at the base of LTW? Put in a nice grassy area?

No clean crack etc are not in the new guide- new 06 guide has a line where the RR property right of way is - no climbs within that zone are included meaning that older guide is worth keeping (for both lower malamute and haybrich = though I've heard the alpine BC rock climbs is good for haybrich too)

You could lower off the missing mid-anchor with a 60m but you'd only have one bolt. You need a 70m to get down off the FULL P1. Put the chain back on - The mid anchors on many of these routes cause few if any problems. I've only had to wait for the full P1 once because of those mid anchors (which also provide a great way to totally waste whatever energy you have left at the end of the day by running laps on it - NOTE I said END OF DAY - ie, when others are not waiting.) Index is a GREAT PLACE because it has a bit of everything and for the most part, everything is accepted. Slabs, bolted sport, mixed and hard gear only co-exist right near one another. The recent center fold bolting was out of line and quickly rectified because it was obviously wrong. Let's not get index all riled up with damn bolting debates. MY biggest issue recently has been aid climbers CAMPING on JG and Thin fingers ALL DAY on a beautiful sunny sat in the fall. This, in my opinion, is inconsiderate. Hey! Get off THE CLASSIC free routes of the lower wall. It's one thing to camp on City Park but TF and JG for 5 hrs?!?

nice - i'll get on it when i get up there in oct

Double ropes on raps with an updraft wind will mate and spawn baby rope balls...