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Garmont--- I think was brand. Just saw two models in shop in Olympia-- a lighter one, quite a beauty, apparently discontinued? with rubber rand & heel welt for strap-on crampon, & slightly heavier model with similar design --- Both ultralight-- probably lighter than the Trango, a tad less high,?? but inspired by that design. I'd be interested in any comments/experience with the brand????

standing around at the Grand-whatever hut on Orizaba chatting with guided group including young doctor-- a couple of other guys came down from high camp- one of them not looking too good-- so this young doctor was going on & on about various pills he & his wife had taken, or brought along, & one might give the hiker, but the doc didn't do anything as it appeared that for the hiker, getting to lower elevation was most important thing. I found it increasingly a factor from hut at 14,000 but of course it all depends on acclimatizing time. I turned around at about 16,000. Speaking of drugs, feeling of drunkeness was slightly amusing but kinda unnerving & definitely uncomfortable though no headache or nausea.

I agree with Dru's basic views. Didn't consider breathing/heart rate thing, but they only seemed to work for a couple of hours, especially in Mexico, once you get used to them. I forget brand-- relatively new. Amused to think how the 1963 Everest group probably had the real good stuff & openly popped pills -- fully optimistic regarding drug use. Me too, I guess, but am thinking more now in terms of surgery though.

Sleeping pills. I found them useful at altitude in Mexico. Also somewhat useful in noisy Bugaboo Hut at night & also to wait out boring weather there (possibly an abuse, but also good to muster strength). I also use them for aircraft travel. Main complaint is they don't work as well as other meds (but no hangover). A French corporate chemist sed the pills cause short-term memory loss when taken chronically. U.S. 1963 Everest climbers relied on both uppers & downers supplied by Natl' Geographic Magazine (sortta).

I ditched the BD Bod due to discomfort on descent as it discouragingly digs into the dogbones.

I'm a very old & cranky snow dabbler & notice in treking that poles provide better balance than an ice ax. These poles' proliferation may presage a higher rate of slippage sans stopping than previously among climbers. No?

Question: regarding the steep snow near Gilhooely(sp) Tower on Deception's main route, I think the guide book mentions bergscrund there. There wasn't one when I was there but it was moderately snowy. I think I've seen talk of the spot here--but no mention of scrund. Can one open up and affect safety of climbing the snow headwall? Also, does snow headwall disappear or become otherwise transformed???? (has anybody been there in September???)

One of my questions is, are Needles climbs sandbagged in guidebook . I'm a shameful whimp, but I found Deception (with guide) a bit tougher than class2. Am now leading a few low 5s at Gunks (highly developed crag--far different from mteering); am fairly accomplished at self arrest etc, but not terribly comfortable on 39+degree snow, & wondering if its at all realistic to take my girlfriend to do Clark, Adelaide &/or anything, really, in Needles. If so, what rack, if any, might be useful..... Also (to change subject) have heard wildly varying reports on Elwah snow finger-- as far as how steep it really is, when it's there/not there & generally trying to get read on it, for potential trip lead by me, a whimp, & accident-waiting-to-happen girlfriend....

Ah virginal charms!! How often are the more obscure peaks of olympics climbed????-- by these I mean interior subranges not on Olympus or Baily range -- & otherwise limited by access. Any information remotely related to this question is of interest.

How often do these mountains get climbed? Deception several parties a week at very least. Mystery less. I'm guessing. Any well-informed guesses available?

The couloir write-up certainly enjoyable & got me thinking of my own ascent of Whistler via normal N.Ridge route. I was client with guide from Alabama via Ft Lewis. September & no snow, & we saw impressive rockfall in couloir system. There was one brief section of really criddy rock to get into the notch from grassy meadows. We saw a party of 2 at notch, traversing from direction of Whistler. N. Ridge was accurately rated by guidebook at class3 & some 4 -- & bits of 2. Ridge was nice, but Beckey called it "superb rock" which was maybe true, relatively. Nice day & saw where large animal may have been working over some marmot holes.

Did I like them or not? For me, personally, I'm not crazy about ANY guide service - probably because I've hired way too many guides (Lemme count'em uh....25 guides , though a few of those I just observed in huts in Canada& Mexico.) Of the three I met wOlympic Mteering, included part-timer and two regulars, who I gather may have had some sort of ownership stake, were okay & my friend likes them fine. They seemed really focused on climbing in Oly NP; the one guy almost exclusively on Mt. Olympus ...... I had a little communications problem with them prior to departure, & there were hurt feelings on both sides. But they were advertising Mt. Anderson for many months or possibly a year++ after key bridge wash out + nobody at OlyMtrning was aware of this until I arrived packed & ready to go. In my initial shock and disappointment, I became quite angry, & they seemed a bit grudging because of my initial outburst. I guess people out in Port Angeles don't get mad 'cause they're so laid back...... But the grudge thing seemed at least as stupid & unpleasant. Same thing happened once at AAI when I thought I made a deal to climb Dome Peak & they told me at 7 a.m. day of departure that they didn't actually have a Natl Forest permit to guide there. That was really even worse situation because AAI at the time charged quite a premium for its office workers (I suppose). What would really be dumb is if OLYmteering started charging that much (they probably will, if they haven't already.) However, AAI is big enough that the grudge thing would never really be a factor.

I went with them to Olympus in 2000 and Deception in 2001. My friend hired them for short winter trip -- probably near Hurricane Ridge-- a year or two ago. Have seen three individuals actually guiding, & spoke to Jack, who may be "brains" of operation. Olympics are unlike other mountains so maybe it stands to reason they're different from other guide services. On Olympus, they run you up the glacier, & otherwise your pretty much on your own for 40-mile round-trip hike. This is swell, & rates, at least a few years ago, were very reasonable They were definitely not gung-ho about leading the summit block on Olympus & given size of group, I wasn't too hot to follow. Deception, with guide #3 was okay. ... Elsewhere on this site is discussed the correct route. The guide service is laid back. AAI in Bellingham, is more professional, without a doubt up to date, but marketing people & pricing is on a major "attitude" about their McKinley service. All things equal, however, I'd have slight preference that my travel agent &/or belayer was a little more on the ball --may be a small price to pay.