Mr._Chips

Reading that posting by jkrueger only re-affirms my instincts and pre-conceived notions about Anna's experience and ability. Things like this can not be simply swept under the rug. I am not trying to be a jerk, just the voice that so many others are afraid to speak or selectively choose not to listen to.

Anna, you said it yourself, "I don't have an ego with climbing but I do with flying" or something of that nature back in the postings. jkrueger, You seem to see what I am doing here and have direct experience to back it up.

No, I am serious. there are some nice lines to hammer down there without having to worry about ethics-mongers charging away at you. I am talking thin blades and knives, perhaps some coppers, rurps, we shall see. I don't agree with angles when cams can be used, but a route with a horizontal crack I am not worried about 'tapping' in a little iron for body weight transition to next piece. As long as the second doesnt mind.

Perhaps this is the forum that Anna should be reading right now. With all this good advice, it makes sense that she should talk to the ones who posted the recomendations.

HOLY SHIT! Me too but I am about 1500feet above you, c'mon up and we can have some chai and work this out. This is an acclimation day anyway.

With the lapse in the parties heading down there, maybe now is a good time to get in and practice some aid climbing on some nice cracks. HAMMER TIME!!

I did not say Anna was NOT cool, (cool is an ambiguos word anyway), just read the posts and try and see my point here. She needs to not put the cart before the ox.

Hey LAME - BONE, It's not about who has a right to climb a route because the climb is there, it's about who has the right to climb because they are prepared - experienced - and at least have some confidence. Read the posts by ANNA herself, she pretty much admits that she had no "right" to be on that climb. Maybe you should give your head a shake pal. If a friend of yours said to you, "ya, I have not climbed for 4 months, I have very little idea on how to place natural gear, I am not feeling good about this, I am not familiar with this climb at all, I don't know how to set an anchor, I don't know where the anchor is etc. etc. " would YOU say "c'mon dude, just climb it, you can do it, ROck on man." (puff-puff)???? THINK ABOUT IT LAME-O.

You know, it just angers me on how blatently stupid you were for heading up on that climb. Reading your last entry spells out so many no-brainer hints that you were not prepared at all for climbing. HUMBLED is not the word to use here.

Sounds to me that Anna had no right heading up that climb in the first place. If you had little idea on how to set an anchor, then what were your intentions when you reached the top of the pitch??? And how about the second, did he/she feel comfortable seconding on an anchor set by a questionably "experienced" climber. Sounds like your climbing friends should have and could have help you make a safer and proper decision. Yes, climbers have close calls, but it sounds like you are not a climber who should have been leading that type of climb. You were not positive on how to set gear on trad climbs, HELLO big RED FLAG there. Learn to recognize the inherit risks of not being confident with the fundamentals first, then get up on a route. If you are just "pretty sure" you know how to place gear, take a course or practice until you are. It's people like you that make non-climbers believe that climbing is not safe. Sorry to rag on you like this, but this is also directed to your climbing friends who allowed you to lead up that route. You were lucky, very lucky.

HEY SHRED, keep in mind while reading, those are experiences that you do NOT want to emulate, I repeat, do NOT want to emulate.

Yes, stating that you know 'quite a bit' about something lends to the idea that you are experienced. How was the water anyway?

Don't you understand the original message that Tyrone sent? He is bringing to light the 'attitude' that Anna has and how it can be dangerous when you have it while doing dangerous activities (ie climbing and flying). It's quite obvious that she thinks and truly believes that she knows more than she does, this can be dangerous. Talking about knowing so much about flying and merely in training mode. C'mon guys, it's pretty crystal clear - unsubstantiated EGO.

Sherlock, different avatars dude. They are very similar, but I guarantee they're not the same person. The real question is does anybody have a real response to Tyrone's posting. His information and ideas are right on the money as far as I am concerned.

Here it is again. A valid and extremely important issue comes up, Tyrone, you raise excellent points and parrallel the ideals and views I have. BUT some joker comes in and smothers the thread under a pile of 'horsecock and snafflehounds' like it's funny or something. Bellemontagne, you are not even close to being funny. Unless that is as good as the humour gets here.

Whatever. I call it negligence. Ya she stepped up to the climb but someone was going to second, that person should know what kind of anchor they will be climbing under.

In this case, the anchor failed indirectly due to negligence. Simple. A textbook gear anchor would take 4 pieces, 3 down/ 1up. Every piece failed?!

MattP, not to go against what I have said in my last post, I have to agree with you on the idea of acting and listening to instincts. There is so much truth to instinctive behaviour. I would not climb with Anna or fly with her either for that matter. She just said she knows SO MUCH about flying, BUT she is still training in a 152. RED FLAG.

Yes, that is a difficult one for sure. When you just meet someone you expect them to advise you of their skill and competency level with nothing less than the un-buttered truth. I know when I first climb with someone new I certainly don't jump on something that is at or above my skill level. Get to know the person, there will always be another day to climb with them and push things a little, that is of course if you get along and TRust them and they trust you in return. It kinda sounds like the 'sex on the first date' conversation, go all the way on the first meeting or hold off a while.

Anna, that does count for something, and Lambone is correct when he says technical skills can be learned while enthusiasm and a keen sense of adventure cannot, that was well said. You fly planes, me too. They are based on basic fundamental skills taught and learned early and implemented on EVERY flight, no matter how experienced the pilot. I am in no way trying to discourage you from climbing, only to try to send you in the right direction, getting some training and experience down to make the whole thing enjoyable again.

Yes, I have had my bad experiences too, but I mitigate the dangers with solid and productive training built on a foundation of instincts and experiences. She only led trad once, this is not the voice of experience. A climber may have to shake the cobwebs loose every now and again to find their focus, but Anna, you had no founded experience with trad climbing. Again, I apologize for the temperment of my postings but someone had to throw a cup of cold water on the ego that can build quickly in this forum.

Okay, I got a little more over zealous than I should have, for that I am sorry. RuMr, I am glad you see my points here, responsibility is not just to the leader. Anna, I just don't want you to shrug it off, wipe your brow, and say "fhew, that was a close one" and not see your position in all of this. You must recognize where you sit in the scheme of climbing and re-evaluate. It seems to me that you are, and that is good, but I lashed out (lo siento) because others (belayers/friends) were not stepping up to responsibility and because the thread seemed to have a bit of a laid-back feel to this very serious issue. Lambone, sounds like you are experienced, good for you and so am I. I would think that as a fellow instructor/guide you would see the value amidst my misguided angst. ??

Ya Greg, maybe she should have had one of those books in her back pocket on the climb. You know, whip it out in times of doubt, nothing like learning as you go. Must I say this again, READ ANNA'S POSTS, she was not prepared to be on that particular climb. Do firemen head into a fire situation with no formal training and hope for the best? I really don't think so. It's typical of the "standard cc.com junkies" to band together and look at this as a chill situation. Imaging if Anna died, what would the report say -"experienced climber fell to her death climbing a route in a style she was familiar with, it was a freak accident and we can't figure it out" NO it would say the complete opposite!! Anna, sorry, but someone needs to be blunt with you and tell you that you fucked up big time and that you need to get prepared properly before climbing again. you're going to the gym, what the hell will that do for placing gear? This is one of the most basic and fundamental issues with climbing, Get trained properly and ease into it. lead harder routes while being toproped in event of a fall on your gear. if you have no confidence in the gear, then work on it in a safe environment.

These type of presentations are usually great if the climber has done something outstanding and/or original OR if there is a principle theme or idea. Otherwise it sounds like one of those typical "Check out what I have done - self-realized - I wanna be important and recognized - resume flashing - chestbeater/spray - How do you like me so far?" mediocre and mildly interesting shows. ALTERNATIVELY, just hook up on cc.com or bivouac.com , and the whole presentation has already been done with all the threads.

I soloed the Coleman Headwall a couple weeks ago. It was solid. There were the expected crevasses and schrunds to negotiate but not too bad when you fully expect it. One day trip car to car. Having good weather helped out too. The coleman was a breeze to come down. I planned to and succeeded in missing the first larger snowfalls, however, there is now new snow, how much I do not know.