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Thinker

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    From BBC News: Replica clothes pass Everest test

    in Climber's Board

    Posted

    REALLY?!?!? "The results stand out as a challenge for future outdoor innovators because Mallory's clothing and footwear was 20% and 40% lighter respectively."

     

    That's a dangerous way of thinking...where's that unchallenged devotion to spending big bucks on high tech gear?

     

    ***************

    :...I suspect Mallory and Irvine would have put the clothes on at Advanced Base Camp and left them on for the duration. Fly buttons may have been left undone...."

     

    Sounds like they would have fit in just fine here at cc.com.

    From BBC News: Replica clothes pass Everest test

    in Climber's Board

    Posted

    I saw some discussion about this here a few months ago when preparations were being made. Here's the result:

     

    (note that the photo captions from the article were inserted into the article text when it was cut and pasted and I didin't take the time to fix it.)

     

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5076634.stm

    The results of a unique experiment on Mount Everest confirm that the clothing of the 1924 climbers George Mallory and Sandy Irvine would not have prevented them from reaching the summit, as many had believed.

     

    The findings are a step closer to proving the men could have reached the top, 29 years before Tenzing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary.

     

    Over the past few weeks, climber Graham Hoyland has been putting the old-style clothing worn on the fateful Mallory expedition to the ultimate field test on the world's highest mountain.

     

    Wearing replica gear made from gabardine, wool, cotton and silk, he wanted to disprove the common myth that the 1920s climbers were ill-equipped to reach the summit.

     

    "This is just another brick in my wall of evidence," Hoyland said.

     

    Following the discovery of Mallory's body on the north face of Everest in 1999, a team of forensic textile experts from Lancaster, Leeds, Southampton and Derby universities embarked on an experiment to recreate the outfit from samples of Mallory's clothing which had been preserved in ice.

     

    Side by side

     

    The three-year project, lead by Professor Mary Rose and Mike Parsons, revealed that Mallory's clothing was highly effective at providing protection at high altitude.

     

    The layered natural materials used to construct the garments were found to be excellent at trapping air next to the skin.

     

    Mallory and Irvine's expedition

    The mystery of Mallory and Irvine's expedition has endured

    The outer layer of gabardine was hardwearing and water-resistant yet breathable. But the clothing was also lighter than modern gear - the lightest ever to be used on Everest.

     

    Parsons said: "The results stand out as a challenge for future outdoor innovators because Mallory's clothing and footwear was 20% and 40% lighter respectively."

     

    The results of Hoyland's in-the-field experiment have now confirmed the experts' investigations.

     

    Wearing the replica clothing for two days on Everest, Hoyland tested the suit alongside the expedition leader who was wearing a typical modern down suit.

     

    A good feel

     

    "I immediately found the underclothes warm to put on, whereas the modern polypropylene underwear feels cold and clammy," said Hoyland.

     

    "When exposed to a cutting wind blowing off the main Rongbuk glacier, I found the true value of the Gabardine outer layers. These resisted the wind and allowed the eight layers beneath to trap warmed air between them and my skin.

     

    Socks (MHT Mallory Replica Project)

    It has been a three-year project to create the replicas

    "We both got too hot working on the glacier so we felt that Mallory's clothing would have been more than adequate to climb to the top in, although it would be hard to survive a bivouac near the summit."

     

    Hoyland also discovered that the clothes were more comfortable to wear than modern day gear.

     

    "Like most mountaineers, I am used to synthetic outdoor clothing: polypropylene underclothes and outer fleeces which are bought pre-sized, off the shelf and never quite fit properly.

     

    "They are unforgiving in stretch, and begin to smell unpleasant if worn for more than a couple of days. There is a harsh synthetic sensation next to your skin. By contrast, the Mallory clothing was made to fit me.

     

    "This meant that the shirts didn't ride up, exposing my kidneys when I stretched, and the whole ensemble felt of a piece when walking. Instead of feeling bulky, the layers fitted very well."

     

    Freedom of Movement

     

    But the main difference for Hoyland was the level of movement the clothing allowed - which can mean the difference between life and death when at high altitude.

     

    "The patented Pivot sleeve of the jacket enabled me to lift my arm to full extent when cutting steps with an ice axe without displacing the warm layers of air. If you can reach above your head and climb faster, you could get to the summit before nightfall."

     

    Mallory's clothing did have one major drawback, as Hoyland discovered.

     

    Jacket (MHT Mallory Replica Project)

    Mallory and Irvine probably wore their clothes for the duration

    "The immediate problem was fastening buttons with cold fingers. I suspect Mallory and Irvine would have put the clothes on at Advanced Base Camp and left them on for the duration. Fly buttons may have been left undone as there are enough layers to interleave."

     

    But Hoyland says: "All the other climbers thought the jacket was stylish and wanted to know where they could buy their own versions of the clothes!"

     

    The summit attempt and subsequent deaths of Mallory and Irvine sparked the biggest mountaineering mystery, which continues to puzzle the climbing world today.

     

    Norgay and Hillary are credited with the first successful summit, in 1953. But a few, like Hoyland, still believe Mallory could have reached the top and are gradually piecing together the evidence to prove it.

     

    Hoyland is a great nephew of Howard Somervell, one of Mallory's climbing companions who lent Mallory his camera and was one of the last to see him heading for the summit.

     

    Hoyland believes the Kodak camera, which is still to be found, could also hold vital clues about Mallory's ill-fated climb.

    Was Zarqawi Really Alive After those 500-lb Bombs?

    in Spray

    Posted · Edited by Thinker

    Wow, I realize this is the spray section, but I had hoped for a lively discussion of media integrity, conspiracy theories, Pro-Bush camps, Anti-Bush majority, and US-EU politics in general.

     

    What happened to the vibrant and quirky Spray section I knew and loved?

     

    edit: Thanks Harry! THAT'S what I'm talkin' bout!

    Was Zarqawi Really Alive After those 500-lb Bombs?

    in Spray

    Posted

    Why isn't this reported in 'our' news?

     

    " It is reported Zarqawi was wounded but still alive when the Americans found him. The US military said they handed him over to the Iraqis and he later died of his injuries."

    EuroNews.net

     

    Granted, I don't know if the source was accurate, but this paints a slightly different picture than the US and UK news outlets are showing.

     

    Did he commit suicide after his capture? Did the Iraqi's execute him?...or did he really die of his wounds. Seems to me that if he were wounded and alive that he'd have been given the best possible medical care so he could be tortured later for 'information'.

     

    Maybe the fact that Bush and the new Bush-Iraqi government needed a shot in the arm dictated the need for Zarqawi to be dead.

     

    Spray on..........

    Carpooling to the Crags....

    in Rock Climbing Forum

    Posted

    So set up a website where people could find other climbers to carpool with.

     

    Design it around a relational database so that people simply create a profile with their location, their ability to provide transportation and for how many. Then a few days before going cragging you enter the days and locations you want to go climbing. The system finds matches and then sends out e-mails to potential drivers and passengers to coordinate.

     

    Create a standardized rule of payment for all users unless the driver agrees to something else. For example 6 cents a mile per passenger or something.

     

    Include feedback (much like E-bay) so people could identify creeps, pervs, hippies and stinky people.

     

    Get a couple sponsors and a big ‘ole government grant to cover your costs. Or maybe it sounds like a good project for a masters degree?

     

    Silly idea!? What do you think.

     

    Sounds like you'll fit *right* in here: carpooling

     

    And don't forget *these* resources:

    web page

    web page

    web page

    Utah road trip help

    in Climber's Board

    Posted

    Al, why are you dragging a dog along on a trip to the desert?

     

    Talk about a buzz kill............

     

    and maybe even buzzard bait......

     

    You'd have access to 10x the scenery and privacy without the dog in tow. And the dog would probably be happier at Tails End Pet Resort than it would be in the sweltering Utah heat.

     

    fwiw,

     

    D

    What do you do when the love is gone?

    in Climber's Board

    Posted

    Squid, take it from an old fart....climbing is like womanizing. When you're tired of the same old chicks/routes and the same old places to find them then it's time for a little change of pace.

     

    Why don't you wander over to SLC for a long weekend and do some craggin here? You're welcome to our guest room; our place is 20 minutes or less from more climbing than you could do in the next 5 years.

     

    Bring your skis, too. Alta and Snowbird are still open.

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    041706.jpg

    CatBirdSeat Poll

    in Spray

    Posted

    Funny you should mention it, but tonight I wanted to stop for a beer on the way home from Exit 38, but my three climbing partners in the car all wanted to go home and go to bed. I got out-voted three to one.

     

    So did you end up in bed with your climbing partners then? ....Isn't democracy GREAT!

    Is a Warranty Assessment Industry Standard?

    in The Gear Critic

    Posted

    Not venting here.....just checking my calibration.

     

    My light hiking boots were coming apart at the rand/welt in the same spot on each boot, plus the back loop/tab used to pull the boot on over my heel had started to rip out.

     

    Armed with the receipt dated Aug 25th, the 1-year warranty statement,and the store's return policy I ventured back to the store last evening.

     

    They wanted to send the boots to the mfr for a 'warranty assessment' before they would offer me any kind of decision on whether they would offer me a refund or exchange, something that would take 3 to 4 weeks.

     

    I kindly explained that was unacceptable. I also noted that I moved to SLC shortly before buying the boots and preferred to support the small local retailers over the K-Mart of Kamping....but what could possibly make me ever want to make another purchase there if they insisted on leaving me without my favorite boots for a month?

     

    The supervisor finally saw it my way and got a pair of boots off the rack for an exchange.

     

    After chatting with a couple of people here in SLC the question has arisen, is it industry standard for a retailer to send a potentially defective product back to the manufacturer for a warranty assessment before offering any kind of exchange or credit? If so, is 3 to 4 weeks a reasonable amount of time?

    Is this you? B-hammer seeking gear.

    in Climber's Board

    Posted

    Is this someone here? Strikes me as odd for a B-hammer to advertise in SLC. If it were me, I'd find the folks stealing the gear in Squampton and buy it cheap.

    ****************************

     

    http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/spo/122496556.html

     

    Wanted: rope, rock climbing rock protection: nuts, cams, tricams

    Reply to: sale-122496556@craigslist.org

    Date: 2006-01-04, 1:38AM MST

     

    I am in need of some climbing gear...please send me pics as well as any relevant details to offered items. thanks

     

    alex phillips

     

    * this is in or around Bellingham, wa

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