Thinker

quote: Originally posted by allison: What's wrong with REI? Nothing, just looking for a few other options. I prefer to spend my money at smaller mom and pop shops when I can.

....the board goes entirely dead for an hour while everyone checks it out.........

your reasoning becomes more clear with a bit of explanation. thanks for being patient. I agree about a residue from soap. Ideally, I'd use an acid solution to decompose the hydrocarbons and then rinse with water. That's part of the accepted protocol for decontaminating metalic sampling equipment used to sample soil and water for hydrocarbons. I'm too lazy for all that and get by with really hot water. I insist on completely drying them as fast as possible to prevent corrosion (yes, aluminum can oxidize).

so it is, right there in front of my bloody nose. sounds like you had a blast! [ 08-19-2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

So, after all that planning and filtering thru the spray, how was it? What did you climb?

Sorry Dru, the concept of washing a flamable liquid out of a container with another flamable liquid just seemed a little..........different. I'm sure if it air-dryed for a while before flaming it it would be fine. I just wanted to point out the danger in case some imbecile reading all this decided to drop a match into a recently emptied fuel bottle....boom! I used to work with some welders who did some krazy sh*t with oxygen, acetylene, metal pipes, and other stuff I don't feel the need to expound on. [ 08-19-2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

Was the booty left as rappel anchors?

quote: A molotov cocktail has to be in a glass bottle so that when it is thrown it can break and spread burning gas everywhere. I think the worst you could expect from a MSR bottle would be getting knocked out when the thing hits you on the head.Granted, the traditional MC is made using a glass container. It's primary purpose is to start fires. If one, however, wanted to maim people, an explosion using aluminum or other metal would likely be more effective. Though I've not done it (nor would I ever consider it), I understand that one of the best lowtech bombs can be made using an (empty) compressed gas cylinder, a good source of combustible material (fertilizer dissolved in an accelerant), and an ignition source. The thick walled cylinder forces the reaction to create significant pressure before it blows, thus potentially causing greater damage than the wimpy 55-gallon drums that were used in Oklahoma City. The same priniciple is used in firearms, except that the explosive force is directed out the end of the barrel, pushing a projectile along the way. Back to the fuel bottle, the most dangerous scenario is when the bottle has a trace of liquid fuel in it, the remainder of the cylinder volume being filled with vapors which are actually more explosive than the liqiud fuel. That's really why airlines frown on transporting bottles that have been used, even if they appear to be empty. I'm really surprised that the guy who 'flamed' his empty bottle in an earlier post wasn't injured. He was damned lucky! I rinse my bottles with hot water a number of times before transporting them as checked baggage. I always pack the lids separately from the bottles. I've never had a problem with them. A guide in Alaska told me that he often packs a 'dummy' stove near the top of his pack so if an airline gets sticky over the 'used' stove possibly containing fuel vapors, he can just hand it to them, knowing full well that his good stove is burried in the cookset in the bottom of the pack. [ 08-19-2002, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

Nutcracker on Saturday T'was a little warm in the Valley, but a good breeze compensated nicely. Only one fast party ahead of us, 2 turtle teams behind us.

It's a whole new way to descend slabs...forget walk offs or rappelling.

Actually, I believe it is the FAA (not the airlines) that prohibits flamable chemicals from being transported on passenger aircraft. These regulations were in place long before 9/11. 'Personal grooming' items such as hairspray seem to be acceptable to the FAA, and are often allowed by airlines, but some do prohibit many kinds of aerosol cans. I personally would rather face a terrorist with an aerosol can and a lighter than one with a molotov cocktails made from a MSR fuel bottle...think shrapnel and burning kerosene! It would be pretty tough to explode an aerosol can without an intense heat source, and if someone did, the flame would burn itself out almost immediately due to the fact that it's a gaseous mixture (as opposed to a flamable liquid.) Just my take on it.............. [ 08-16-2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

I hear flying with fuel kills brain cells........

I personally like those little toothbrushes REI sells that slip over the end of your finger...talk about no weight. I'll bet if Lambone had had one of those he could have kept the ladies' minds off calling 911 again.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: I can do this one problem with ice tools that i can't do barehanded cuz of the extra 8 inches of reach It's amazing what one can do when he imagines he has an extra 8 inches..............

quote: Originally posted by Dru: "To scramble around on a few little rocks is not, of course, the same as mountaineering." - Lionel Terray describing Fontainebleau c. 1948 "Bouldering is the synthesis of all skills needed for climbing" - Ron Kauk c. 1990 Who was right? This also assumes that mountaineering is equivalent to climbing. That's simply not true. When's the last time you were able to practice self-arrest or crampon technique on a boulder? And to echo an earlier post, when's the last time you used your toothbrush on a rock while mountaineering? IMHO, mountaineering can (and usually does) involve climbing, but is much more comprehensive than simply climbing.

I've found that communication usually isn't a problem. But, when it us, there's usually enough rope drag that tugging on the rope is a hopelessly inept way to communicate. I generally go with the 'when the rope comes up tight, give em a minute and start disassembling the anchor' routine, making sure to watch that slack in the rope continues to be pulled in. Still, there are those times when you just never REALLY know what's going on up/down there. The accident above makes that point dramacally (and tragically).

quote: Originally posted by Dru: "To scramble around on a few little rocks is not, of course, the same as mountaineering." - Lionel Terray describing Fontainebleau c. 1948 I think he was REALLY talking about the blight he saw coming that we now affectionately (or otherwise) call sprot climbing....... [ 08-15-2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

There are some surprisingly good limestone sprot (yes, SPROT) routes in Hell's Canyon on the Idaho Oregon border. I've climbed on limestone there and in South Dakota, Kansas, Cali, Missouri, Costa Blanca (Spain)....good routes on good limestone are fun. A whole different world without the friction we're used to in the PacNW.

quote: Originally posted by ryland moore: I thought Canary was 5.9? I think it depends on which guidebook you're looking at. Disclaimer: I have neither of mine at work with me today.

I was catching up on the NPS Morning Reports http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/ today and ran across this one: quote: 02-343 - Rocky Mountain NP (CO) ? Rescue On the afternoon of Sunday, July 21st, rangers received a report of a seriously injured climber in the westernmost area of Lumpy Ridge, a popular rock climbing area. A 32-year-old Loveland man had fallen nearly 100 feet after leading a portion of a 5.11 climb on Sundance Buttress. According to his climbing partner, the fall, which occurred at the top of the first pitch, was caused by a communication breakdown between the two climbers. A total of 30 people from the park's SAR team and Larimer County SAR provided ALS and rescued the climber. The evacuation was over 1800 feet of scree and rough terrain to a waiting medevac helicopter. The climber sustained multiple spinal, internal and bilateral injuries to his lower legs. He was flown to Poudre Valley Hospital in Fort Collins. [Doug Ridley, ROMO] So what can we suppose happened here? Does 'communiacation breakdown' translate as being taken off belay before being anchored? How many of you/us use radios to reduce 'communication breakdowns' on long mulit-pitch routes? Any other favorite fail-safe techniques? [ 08-15-2002, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

Also, at the end of a long day on Devil's Tower my bud and I were rapping down in the dusk/dark. Too many climbs, too much fun, too little water that day, no headlamps...classic. We were taking our time tying the ropes together, checking each other out, etc. When I got to the bottom of a long rap and was taking the rope out of the ATC I noticed the rope strandss weren't threaded thru the biner that the ATC was attached to, but thru a different biner on my harness. That mistake really woke me up. It just so happened that it wasn't fatal. A slightly different variation could well have been.

Few years back was beginning the rap descent of a multi-pitch route somewhere. We broke out the 2nd rope we'd be toting up the climb for the occasion, ran an end thru the rap anchors, tied the ends together (EDK Rules!), and got the brainy idea to even the ends out because the rope we'd been climbing on was 60 m and the extra rope was 50 m. Sounded good at the end of a long day, right? So I start rapping, get about 5 m down the rope and of course run into the knot. Damn! Not an insurmountable problem, but felt kinda foolish. We still joke about that one.

quote: Originally posted by krazy 1: sorry about the dumb ass remark. "I love you man!" ok are we kool now? yep, kool.....that's what's it's all about........ See ya at VW or at the Icicle again sometime.

I'll vouch for Krazy1 being cute and a climber. If I weren't attached and accompanied by my gf I'd have probably made a REAL fool of myself that day..... btw, Krazy, did you end up trying the reachy hard(er) start on that route?

Why not, my photo hasn't caused me any harm......